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eclark... talk to me

nututhugame

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I have never hunted before, but am looking to do that next season. Being as i've never done it before I am looking to keep my investment pretty minimal until I know if I love it or not. That said I am looking to get a rifle (entry level) and would love to hear your thoughts. I've looked at the Savage Axis, Rem. 770, and some other comparables. Have already found out that the Rem. is pretty much junk because the trigger guard is one piece molded w/the stock and cannot be dissasembled for any cleaning or lubing. Any ramblings on your part are certainly welcomed if not expected, but remember I am looking at an entry level investment.
 

eclark53520

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Here's my opinion on 'entry level' investments. You're either going to love hunting, or hate it. If you buy a 770/axis and love hunting, you WILL want a better rifle. Good luck selling a 770 or axis on the used market. Most people looking for used guns don't want them, and the people who are, want them at about half or less what they retail for. Which means you're pretty much stuck with it. If you hate hunting, you will want to get rid of the rifle...in which case, you're in the same situation.

Now, if you buy a Remington 700(event the base ADL $450) and a decent($200-$300) entry level scope(OR 700SPS & scope package $700), you will be able to sell it used fairly easily and for not a whole lot less than you paid for it. Also, if you like hunting, you can upgrade an ADL just like any 700(like the SPS) and the aftermarket support for 700's is extensive to say the least.

So in the end, you risk less money by buying a better rifle up front.

Now, if you absolutely can't afford the $700 for the rifle, i would argue that you don't have the money to start hunting just yet. Hunting now days is a sport, not a lifestyle(for most), and not a cheap sport either.

If I can make a caliber suggestion, 308 Winchester would be my first choice in your situation(sells used much easier), otherwise a .270 or .243 would be great as well.

Happy to help, so if you got any more questions, shoot!
 
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nututhugame

nututhugame

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Ok.... so what are the advantages of the 700 vs the entry level guns? what makes them so much better? I guess my thinking is that if I do continue to hunt i'll probably end up with more than one rifle regardless. Even if I do upgrade there's no harm in just keeping the Axis. I also have 4 kids that I wont want to buy brand new rifles for when it's their time. That said,... i'd be interested in knowing any pros or cons about the 770 or Axis and how they compare to other rifles. I.E. - such and such is made w/ a higher grade metal wich means it will remain more accurate and last longer than so and so. Stuff like that.
 

eclark53520

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Ok.... so what are the advantages of the 700 vs the entry level guns? what makes them so much better? I guess my thinking is that if I do continue to hunt i'll probably end up with more than one rifle regardless. Even if I do upgrade there's no harm in just keeping the Axis. I also have 4 kids that I wont want to buy brand new rifles for when it's their time. That said,... i'd be interested in knowing any pros or cons about the 770 or Axis and how they compare to other rifles. I.E. - such and such is made w/ a higher grade metal wich means it will remain more accurate and last longer than so and so. Stuff like that.

When it comes to rifles, and optics, it's definitely a 'get what you pay for' market. Lower grades of steel no doubt, Loose tolerances, lax QC, etc. It's all there when you look at rifles such as the Axis or 770. There's a real reason as to why they're so cheap.

As far as specific this is the type of steel they use vs the other rifles, i don't retain that knowledge because those rifles aren't even thought about when i'm looking at a new rifle. I'm not saying i'm too good for them, they're just not something I would buy.

That said, if you're not worried about re-sale value, top notch fit and finish, or aftermarket support, those rifles would probably fit the bill just fine. More than likely they will shoot good enough to take deer sized game. They do fill a niche, but it's a pretty small one.


How far do you plan on shooting? If it's under 150 yards, I would highly suggest looking at 20ga shotguns. A remington 870 express combo can be had for around $200 and gives you the option of bird hunting as well as small game such as rabbits and squirrel. Personally, I firmly believe every man should own a pump action shotgun. My first weapon was an 870 and i'll never sell it. Absolutely the most versatile gun I own. From home defense, to dove, to goose, duck, deer, bear, moose, etc, a 12ga will take them all down if you can get within 100yds of them.
 
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nututhugame

nututhugame

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So I was looking at the 700ADL that comes with the scope on it for about $460. Is the scope junk and if so are the scope mounts compatible to others? When you talk about upgrades what do you mean?
 

mddubya

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Most all of the rifles that come with scopes pre-mounted use cheapo scopes. Another option you might want to look into the Thompson Center line. They started off makiing muzzle loaders only, but when they went in making rifles they basically stole the top designers from competor companies. The tolerances and clearances are much closer and tighter than many of the more established companies out there. Being fairly new in the rifle business, I'm sure their resale suffers somewhat, but I swear, I don't think you'll be disapointed and won't be in any hurry to replace them. The come with a fully floatiing barrell, and guarentee a 3 shot pattern within a 1 1/2 inches at 150 yards right out of the box.

As far as scopes go, instead of looking at the bigger name companies, look into the Nikkon line of scopes. I have a Nikkon Buckmaster on my Ruger Model 77 .270 and am MORE than satisfied with it. You'll want to get the 50mm barrel as it will allow more light in and magnify it in low light situations. Of course, all this info comes with the disclaimer of, IMHO, but I think they are some options you need to look into, and I don't think you'll be unsatisfied.
 

eclark53520

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Most all of the rifles that come with scopes pre-mounted use cheapo scopes. Another option you might want to look into the Thompson Center line. They started off makiing muzzle loaders only, but when they went in making rifles they basically stole the top designers from competor companies. The tolerances and clearances are much closer and tighter than many of the more established companies out there. Being fairly new in the rifle business, I'm sure their resale suffers somewhat, but I swear, I don't think you'll be disapointed and won't be in any hurry to replace them. The come with a fully floatiing barrell, and guarentee a 3 shot pattern within a 1 1/2 inches at 150 yards right out of the box.

As far as scopes go, instead of looking at the bigger name companies, look into the Nikkon line of scopes. I have a Nikkon Buckmaster on my Ruger Model 77 .270 and am MORE than satisfied with it. You'll want to get the 50mm barrel as it will allow more light in and magnify it in low light situations. Of course, all this info comes with the disclaimer of, IMHO, but I think they are some options you need to look into, and I don't think you'll be unsatisfied.

Agreed. Scopes that come on stock rifles are almost worthless. MD I think you're thinking of a 30mm scope body, I've never seen a 50mm tube before...

Yes, the stock base and rings will accept other scopes. Probably 1" scope tubes though, not the 30mm ones.

By upgrades I mean stocks, triggers, bases, aftermarket barrel and action work, etc. There are smiths all over this country that can work on 700's and make them extremely smooth and accurate. 770's? Not so much...unless something has happened i don't think there are even any aftermarket stocks for the 770. But again, i don't search for that stuff so i may be wrong. This is all information i gathered when the 770 and before that the 710 were brandy new on the market. I haven't heard of anything since then, it was basically wrote off by the gun world.
 
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nututhugame

nututhugame

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Against your advice I bought the Savage Axis. I did get it in .308win. Got the camo synthetic stock and black matte finish barrel. I did get the combo w/the disposable scope. They actually mount it with pretty decent rings so i'll be able to use the bases and rings when I upgrade the scope.

I do know what this gun is. I am perfectly fine with that because like I said, if I get deeper into firearms I'll own a few and I can get into more upgradeable stuff later. I think that aftermarket stuff will come out for this gun before too long anyways and it will step up a class. I've looked around a lot on this gun and those who actually own it like it. It's catching on. I'm jumping in early on it. It definately does not carry the same rep. as the 770.

I'll throw a couple pics up later. I do appreciate your input and will undoubtedly ask you more in the future.
 

eclark53520

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Against your advice I bought the Savage Axis. I did get it in .308win. Got the camo synthetic stock and black matte finish barrel. I did get the combo w/the disposable scope. They actually mount it with pretty decent rings so i'll be able to use the bases and rings when I upgrade the scope.

I do know what this gun is. I am perfectly fine with that because like I said, if I get deeper into firearms I'll own a few and I can get into more upgradeable stuff later. I think that aftermarket stuff will come out for this gun before too long anyways and it will step up a class. I've looked around a lot on this gun and those who actually own it like it. It's catching on. I'm jumping in early on it. It definately does not carry the same rep. as the 770.

I'll throw a couple pics up later. I do appreciate your input and will undoubtedly ask you more in the future.

In the end, as long as it fits you and what you want to do with it, that's all that matters! For the price, I believe they are pretty good.

.308 is a fantastic caliber. Inherently accurate, easy to find, cheap(relatively), and has probably the most diverse lineup of factory ammo that any caliber has.

I know i knocked it pretty good, but this rifle does fill a niche, and if you're looking for a weapon in that niche, the savage axis fills it very well.

I hear one if the main complaints with the rifle(and this is true with most of savage's budget rifles) is the trigger. There are a couple 'how-to's online that can help reduce the pull weight and smooth out the trigger. That helps with accuracy a ton. One guy went from shooting 3" groups, to 1" groups simply by changing springs and polishing the trigger engagement surfaces.

Looking forward to the pics and hope to hear a range report!
 
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nututhugame

nututhugame

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Yeah, the trigger is the one complaint that holds steady in all the reviews. There is actually an aftermarket trigger that fits it, it's just not made by Savage. I have read where plenty of people have gotten it down to around 3# by trimming the spring too.

I am currently looking for a place to shoot near me and so far i'm looking at a place in Bristol. That actually leads me to another question or two. What are the common courtesies of going to a rifle range? Like if I bring my own ammo do I just get some kind of carry bag for ammo and accessories? Stuff like that.
 

eclark53520

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Yeah, the trigger is the one complaint that holds steady in all the reviews. There is actually an aftermarket trigger that fits it, it's just not made by Savage. I have read where plenty of people have gotten it down to around 3# by trimming the spring too.

I am currently looking for a place to shoot near me and so far i'm looking at a place in Bristol. That actually leads me to another question or two. What are the common courtesies of going to a rifle range? Like if I bring my own ammo do I just get some kind of carry bag for ammo and accessories? Stuff like that.

Honestly, I can't help you much there. I always shoot on private property.

Here's what I've heard/noticed from other people though...

Bringing your own ammo, 99% of all ranges allow you to do so no problem...there are a select few that like to force you into buying ammo at the range...

As far as a carry bag, not nessicary, however, it will be handy. Nothing wrong with walking in to the range with a rifle and a box of ammo if that's all you need for the range trip..


The big thing at public ranges is safety. Make absolutely sure you follow the rules of safe firearm handling. Always keep loaded rifles pointed down range, if the weapon isn't loaded, keep the action open. Most of them have a board up of the rules for the range. Read them, follow them, and you will be fine.
 

warbirdlover

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I'm hurt that you didn't ask me this stuff nututhugame! Snurf snurf... :frown:

Actually, you got good info from clark. And as far as blaze orange goes I've got you covered for the insulated hunting coat and pants. I've got an old set I use for snow blowing. Get your ass over to my house.... NOW! :)

And I think you've got to take a hunter's safety class to get a license if this is your first time and you're not old like me... Might want to look into that soon as those get more booked solid the closer to fall you get.

I'll teach you all you need to know about the range. We'll set up on a couple bench's together and I'll have my (useless) spotting scope. You'll need some sand bags or something for a solid rest. If you really want to know where your gun is shooting anyway. I've got a trigger pull gauge and all that stuff to see how that trigger really is.
 
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nututhugame

nututhugame

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I'm hurt that you didn't ask me this stuff nututhugame! Snurf snurf... :frown:

Actually, you got good info from clark. And as far as blaze orange goes I've got you covered for the insulated hunting coat and pants. I've got an old set I use for snow blowing. Get your ass over to my house.... NOW! :)

And I think you've got to take a hunter's safety class to get a license if this is your first time and you're not old like me... Might want to look into that soon as those get more booked solid the closer to fall you get.

Sorry, he was here and you weren't. Lol. I do need the class. I will be over when I get free... right now I have 4 kids +1 of their friends here by myself!
 

warbirdlover

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I've got to comment (open my big mouth) and give my opinions on some of the stuff said in this thread so far...

TC was bought out by S&W and is now making junk. They just had a big recall on their Venture rifles. Stay away for awhile.

Remington 770 is junk. Probably the worst rifle ever sold by man. The 700 is a great rifle. If you don't get a lemon. I got lucky and got a good one.

Savage is making the best quality rifles out right now. Another great rifle is the Tikka T3. The Axis is not made cheap either. It was designed to be easy (economical) to make but that doesn't mean it's cheap. All rifle makers use chrome moly or 400 series stainless steel. They've learned over the years what happens when you use cheap steel on a rifle and in this lawsuit world they wouldn't chance it. You're going to see more plastic but not on critical parts.

Weatherby Vanguards have a horrible trigger. Gritty and creepy.

.308 is good choice. I would prefer a .270 Win as it is much flatter shooting and ammo is available anywhere and cheap as the .308. But I own a .300 Win Mag too...
 

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