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I'm Going To Get A Lot of Flack...

Clugnut

Gimme some roombas!
Aug 13, 2006
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See, there you go using things like "facts" and "data" to prove a point. This is a ridiculous way of going about judging quarterbacks. By using that method, Donovan McNabb isn't even in the top 10. Its all about heart. Or breeding. Or skin color. That's a way better way to judge.

Personally, I like accurate passing and good decision making in a quarterback. Manning usually fits this bill, as does Big Ben most of the time. I would not argue with the stats. I think Manning has the longevity and consistency to move him ahead in most peoples minds. Rings count to me, but Jim Plunkett has 2 and isn't in the Hall. McNabb will end his career with none, but will end up in the Hall.

Give me Kurt Warner.
 
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JEFF4i

JEFF4i

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Jul 3, 2006
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lol. I like McNabb too though, so *shrug*

I'm not saying Manning isn't great, he truly is (Big Ben has more rings Clug, in case ya forgot, hehe). At the same, I just think it's silly not to include Ben on Manning's level. Preference of the two comes down to taste, but like I said, not putting Big Ben on the same level as Manning is...well...irrational.
 

Clugnut

Gimme some roombas!
Aug 13, 2006
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Agreed, but my point is rationality never take precedence in this particular argument. Yeah, but defense and rushing and blah, blah, blah. Give me stats and rings. So, by your logic, your right. It takes a lot to win the big games, but you can't do it without a great performance from the QB. I also heard that Tim Tebow isn't a great QB. If 2 national titles and a Heisman trophy doesn't convince people, what will? People and the media pick out sentimental favorites. This is Manning, Brady, and McNabb. They are moved to the head of the class, deserved or not. That leaves the BB's, the Warner's, and the River's out to prove it.

EDIT: This year, the numbers look almost equal between Ben and Peyton. Manning with more yards, Ben a higher rating. Brees tops them both, as does Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and drama queen Favre.

OK, who's better. Manning or Farve? Same number of rings, same number of fawning fans.
 

Clugnut

Gimme some roombas!
Aug 13, 2006
3,423
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While I really do not like McNabb, his numbers weren't too bad this year. He's 12th on the list, and his completion ratio and touchdown/int ratio are about on par. Not superior, as all the analysts want you to believe, but on par.
 

xamilo

Right Curving Driver....
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Dec 22, 2007
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I guess we come back to the exactly same point a we were discussing the other day about QBs, and since I don't think Eli Manning is at Peyton's league for having the same amount of SB wins, neither I think BR is twice as good for having won two of them. E. James had 1500yds campaign? Obviously, every defense playing against the Cols is so worried about a 60yd TD pas than they leave the running defense to a second plane for example, and there are WAY too may variables to compare two QBs thinking about numbers. Rex Grossman could have a SB victory now if the defense could have kept the Colts in that last game, and he is not to be compared with Manning. If the Cardinals defense would have worked in the final play of the SB against the Steelers (which they didn't, it was he worst cover-up in the whole game), Big Ben would be having just one ring and Warner would be having two. Would that make you think then Warner is twice the QB as Manning is?

Anyay, in my opinion in no possible situation I would pick Ben over Manning, or Brady, or Warner or Rivers as we spoke before, even if my choices are stupid for some.
 

BigJim13

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Aug 13, 2006
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Mcnabb shouldn't be in the Top 10, he is the most overated QB in the NFL and has been for years. Ok maybe top 10, like #8 or #9.
 

xamilo

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Dec 22, 2007
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Mcnabb shouldn't be in the Top 10, he is the most overated QB in the NFL and has been for years. Ok maybe top 10, like #8 or #9.

I think he is a very good QB, but he is the Emperor of Inconsistency. One day he plays an awesome 400yd 3TD game and leads the Eagles to a 7 point win after trailing for 21 in the last two minutes of the game, and the next day he throws for 76yds 2INT against the Rams back-up team, and you never know which McNabb you'll see this Sunday...
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
There are way too many variables involved in comparing QBs, because the game is so integrated. Having a strong running game makes passing a LOT easier. Having receivers that don't drop the ball makes passing a LOT easier. Having a defense that gets you the ball more often makes passing a LOT easier.

Ben has done more with a less skilled team, I think. And honestly, Manning is stationary. Under pressure, I'll take Burger 10/10 times. Manning has no legs, and if anyone gets into the backfield he lays right down.

Clug, the Tebow controversy is very valid. He excelled in college because he's bigger than most college linebackers. Florida was effectively playing with 12 men on the field, because Tebow could run through college players just as well as he could pass. If he tries that in the NFL, he's going to get TRUCKED. Ray Lewis is not the college linebacker he's used to running over.

His throwing technique is also very poor. He holds the ball low, and starts his throw from about waist height. He's going to get stripped a LOT in the NFL for that. College teams are stacked. NFL teams are never so vastly overpowered. Everyone on the Florida O-Line is better than anyone on almost every D-line in college play. If Tim gets crowded he's not going to be able to throw using his current mechanics. He was HELLA fun to watch in college, but in the NFL, his genetics aren't going to win him games. College defenses aren't used to trying to play against 6'4" 250 pound quarterbacks.

I hope he proves me wrong, as I really did enjoy watching the guy. But he won in college with a super-powered team, fortunate genetics, and "heart." He's going to see that the NFL is very, very different. I hope he can adapt, but if he does, it's going to be a totally different Tebow.
 

Youngun5

Beware of the Phog!
Aug 26, 2004
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I honestly could flip a coin between Manning/Roethlisberger and be content with the results.

What I've wondered is if Manning would still be successful with different surroundings. For example.....you just insert one of the QB's into a game with 2:12 Left, and one timeout at your own 23 with linemen and receivers they're unfamiliar with and tell him to win the game. In that type of very raw situation, I think I'd rather have roethlisberger based on his ability to extend the play beyond the pocket. I know its not really an accurate or fair scenario, given QB's have weeks to prepare for a team, and set up their calls, but this scenario would bring out the very best of both QB's, and their raw skills.

Manning is phenominal, but I do think a great part of his success has been the stability of his surroundings. Seems like they've had about the same O-Line forever, a lot of the same coaches and coordinators. I will give manning receivers, as he practically put Garcon and Collie on the map this year. Although it helps having Clark and Wayne still around.

Having said all that, I may have just edged Roethlisberger ahead just a little bit in my mind.
 

mddubya

Hybrid convert
Nov 6, 2007
6,029
2
Manning can move, but his vision of the field and quick release negate the need to run. Granted, its not a thing of beauty, but he does have a couple of running Td's. Big Ben is a great QB, but there is no way I'd take him over Manning.
 

BigJim13

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Aug 13, 2006
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I know the discussion is Manning Vs. Big Ben, but when it comes down to it with all the factors mentioned I would take Brady over both Manning and Ben. In my mind he is the one QB in the game today who is mos like Joe Montana. And we all know Joe was the Greatest of All Time. They both have the uncanny ability to be cool under pressure and see the field that is almost unmatched. I hate to say it becuase I am definitely NOT a Pats fan, but really who do you take over Brady?
 

xamilo

Right Curving Driver....
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Dec 22, 2007
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I know the discussion is Manning Vs. Big Ben, but when it comes down to it with all the factors mentioned I would take Brady over both Manning and Ben. In my mind he is the one QB in the game today who is mos like Joe Montana. And we all know Joe was the Greatest of All Time. They both have the uncanny ability to be cool under pressure and see the field that is almost unmatched. I hate to say it becuase I am definitely NOT a Pats fan, but really who do you take over Brady?

MAnning vs Big Ben is a no brainer to me as I said, but Manning against Brady is a tough decision. Brady definetely can improvise plays much better, but Manning has had every posible play studied before the game. I think I might choose an uninjured Brady as well, but it would hurt to leave Manning behind hehehehhe
 
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JEFF4i

JEFF4i

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Jul 3, 2006
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Xamilo, I don't think your opinions are stupid at all. I think they are very valid. There are many reasons for my love of Ben, and it's exacerbated by the fanatacism some people (not you) have over Peyton.

Further, this thread was a general response to everything I have heard about how everyone loves Peyton more than sliced bread recently and noticed this. Again, it's perfectly reasonable to prefer Peyton to Ben, my issue is not considering Ben on the same level.
 

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