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Let's play the Favre retirement game.

Will Favre finally retire?

  • Yes, he played his heart out & has nothing more to prove.

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • No, he doesn't want an interception to be his final play.

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Maybe, but the Vikings won't know until training camp is over.

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • I don't care, just wish the drama queen would decide quickly & put it to rest.

    Votes: 7 41.2%

  • Total voters
    17

nututhugame

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And this is what I was getting at. When he was a Packer I couldn't say anything bad about him. Now I look at it more objectively and plainly see that...
1.the reason he has all the records is because of how long he has been playing.
2.for as long as he has been playing, there are qb's who have more super bowl rings in half the time.
and...
3.no matter how good of a team you surround him with he has a knack for that I N T at the worst possible time.

There really are several better QB's than him. What cannot be taken from him is his arm and a lot of the great bullet passes that he sqeazed in there like no other. That also probably led to overconfidence in being able to sqeaze one in all the time and hence the int's. The other thing that cannot be taken from him is his football essence. The love, toughness, locker room presence, etc. The man is football. It's just too friggin bad he had to tarnish his legend with the repeated retirement fiascos and such.
 

xamilo

Right Curving Driver....
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Best QB:

1. P. Manning
2. J. Montana
3. T. Brady
4. S. Young
5. Troy Aikman

NOTES:

There is one QB I would like to mention although he didn't achieve anything close to these guys and that is Steve McNair. I just think he gave the QB position a whole new dimention with the "running QB" and a different game than it had been played before. He lost to Warner by a yard on that SB though...

I never saw Marino play so I can't say anything about him


And now......

WORST Starting QBs I can remember (they might have had good stats and everything, but I just couldn't stand them playing)

1.Ryan Leaf
2. Rex Grossman
3. Cade McNown
3. A.J. Feeley
4. Kordell Stewart
5. Jan Marcus Russell
 

JEFF4i

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I'm curious as to everyone's ranking of QBs, what is your standard for said ranks?
 

BigJim13

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I'm curious as to everyone's ranking of QBs, what is your standard for said ranks?

Super Bowls, In my mind you can't be in the Top 5 without at least one win. I struggled to put Terry Bradshaw in the mix as he is one of 2 QB's with 4 wins (Montana being the other), but since I never saw him play its hard to say.
 

JEFF4i

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Super Bowls, In my mind you can't be in the Top 5 without at least one win. I struggled to put Terry Bradshaw in the mix as he is one of 2 QB's with 4 wins (Montana being the other), but since I never saw him play its hard to say.

You should watch some of the games on NFL Network. I think you'd be impressed.

Oh, and if it's superbowl wins, you seem to forget Ben Roethlisberger has more than Peyton Manning.
 

BigJim13

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You should watch some of the games on NFL Network. I think you'd be impressed.

Oh, and if it's superbowl wins, you seem to forget Ben Roethlisberger has more than Peyton Manning.

Yeah, but Peyton has 4 MVP's and much better #'s. Don't get me wrong I considered Big Ben but just couldn't justify putting him above Manning.
 

xamilo

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I don't know what my standars are, I guess they very between players (which inevitably mean they are not standard). I think it is important to have SB wins, but that shouldn't be a requirment (Trent Dilfer has a SB Ring, and he is light years behind Manning for example) . As well, team-mates do make a huge difference. Troy Aikman (in my list) was unstopable, but you have to see the people he had playing with him....

1. Payton Manning: He is the best Ofensive Coordinator ever. He makes every possible receiver look like a Pro-Bowler. No Marvin Harrison? No problem, any limp blind receiver becomes a Super Star with him behind the OL. The Colts own everything to him, since he was drafted when they were the worst team in the NFL, and he has been the corner stone to build up one of the best franchises of the '00.
2. Joe Montana: He is a leader, only rivalized by Manning. He was in charge of the entire game, and 4 SuperBowl rings say something about the guy
3. Tom Brady: He has to be the biggest steal of any draft ever. 6th Round pic? Come on! Different from most he didn't have a struggling start. His career practically tarted with a Super Bowl ring, and repeating not long after. HE's one of those "numbers" players which has achieved everything a QB would ever dreamed on doing in just a couple of years. Even more, he married he best looking woman in the world hehehehe
4. S. Young: He had the WORST job in the entire world. He had to replace the best QB in history till then, and he did a more than remarkable job. He showed he had guts and was never minimized by filling Montana's shoes. He was very very underrated due this fact, and will never have the credit he really deserves
5. Troy Aikman: This is a pic most Americans might not understand. The Cowboys are the greatest team outside of the U.S. No other team has such ammount of fans, and no other team has had the ammount of press and merchandise the Cowboys have had. For us U.S: outsiders, it was always The Cowboys the ones we could see, or know, and Troy Aikman was the base of that team. He had a remarkable talent and remarkable numbers, he's been the best Cowboy ever; his image is even bigger than hi stats, and I think that is enough to be part of the best QBs in history, in my humble opinion at least.

THese would be my non-standard standards. Again, I will include a honor mention to McNair just because he invented the real running QB which caued a lot of trouble in his time. If he had made two more yards in that game against the Rams, we would be talking totally different about him now a days...
 

JEFF4i

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I understand Peyton best overall, but don't forget, before they put headsets in helmets QBs were quite often calling their own plays as well. I really think that's what makes Montana far better than Peyton, they both played a similar game, but Montana just did it better. Also Joe wasn't afraid of all that turf outside of his pocket.

Brady? #3? Above TB with 4 rings? Don't get me wrong, Brady is great, but there's almost nothing objective about it.

Cowboys fans aren't even ranked #1 by ESPN, who does that go to? Steelers. NFL's best fans? We gotta hand it to Steelers (barely) - NFL - ESPN

Dallas Cowboys Blog | Sports News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

I know I'm one of the only Steelers fans on here, and I don't think that TB or Big Ben are the best ever, but some of the ones both Xamilo and Jim have posted just don't make sense.
 
OP
Wi-Golfer

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  • #24
I don't rate Superbowl wins very high at all, plenty of great QB's either don't have a win or never even got the chance to play in one. Whereas the aforementioned Trent Dilfer has a ring as does Doug Wlliams, Jim McMahon, etc.
Dan Marino went to 2 but never won, Dan Fouts, one of the greatest QB's ever didn't get the chance.
 

JEFF4i

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Yeah, but Peyton has 4 MVP's and much better #'s. Don't get me wrong I considered Big Ben but just couldn't justify putting him above Manning.

Peyton's Career Average for regular season? 95.2. Ben's? 91.7.

Post season? Peyton 87.5. Ben 87.2.

W/L? Peyton 131-61 or .682. Ben 60-26 .698.

Post-Season W/L? Peyton 9-8 or .529. Ben 8-2 or .800.

Super Bowls? Ben 2 in 6 years, Peyton 1 in 12 (for now). Optimistically, 2 in 12.

Big Ben has also been sacked more in 6 years than Peyton has in 12.

So what is it? Numbers? Peyton gets a massive amount of credit because he essentially is the Colts, but don't forget, their Defense is stout usually year to year, and Peyton's O-Line is one of the best in the game.
 

xamilo

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Cowboys fans aren't even ranked #1 by ESPN, who does that go to? Steelers. NFL's best fans? We gotta hand it to Steelers (barely) - NFL - ESPN
I know I'm one of the only Steelers fans on here, and I don't think that TB or Big Ben are the best ever, but some of the ones both Xamilo and Jim have posted just don't make sense.

Its nos something about "ranking", and its something you obviously can't understand sicne you're not a foreigner nor grew up in a diferent country where the only NFL news you got where from the Cowboys or "Americas Team" as it has always been called outside of the U.S. Very few people out of the states care about the NFL, and even less care about the Steelers or the Green Bay Packers which are supposed to have fans everywhere.
I ain't a Cowboy's fan. I actually hate the Cowboys as much as the Steelers or the Vikings. I'm a Bears fan. but in every country I've lived in, there is always a Cowboy's comunnity. For those people who don't follo the NFL, the only team who ever plays is the Cowboys. New England has come second now, after all the media exposure on Tom BRady, etc etc, but before that, there was no team but the Cowboys.

I can't comment on TB because I NEVER SAW HIM PLAY. Neither I saw Marino play, so they weren' the best QBS ever. That's exxactly what makes my pi objective: I ain't following what peopel say or the statistics, because the game has changed a lot, and maybe Drew Brees would have had a thousand more touchdowns if he had played for the 86 Bears instead of the 09 Saints. I can only be objective about the people I saw playing..not the people who "others saw playing" which I only get the highlights of the best games they played.... Just liek I can't say Marciano or Clay were the best boxers or Pele was the best soccer player: because they are more fable stories than reality to me.

About Big Ben, I couldn't like him less as a QB. He can have the numbers you want and win every SuperBowl from now on until he retires and get 16 Rings. He still is not the QB I would be worried about having in the opposite team. Manning, Brady, Montana, Young and Aikman, they do scare me.

Anyway, that's the idea of having an opinion, that everybody sees different things in different players which make them be likeble or hateble. Trying to argue against an opinion with no more facts than an opinion itself is kind of strange. I consider puting FAvre in the list stupid. Ome experts consider he has to be there. Some include Nathan and Marino, you won't consider Dan because he didn't win a Super BOwl and its obvious numbers have a much bigger impact in you than they have in me for example...

That is, precisely, the idea of opinions, to give your own...
 

BigJim13

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Its nos something about "ranking", and its something you obviously can't understand sicne you're not a foreigner nor grew up in a diferent country where the only NFL news you got where from the Cowboys or "Americas Team" as it has always been called outside of the U.S. Very few people out of the states care about the NFL, and even less care about the Steelers or the Green Bay Packers which are supposed to have fans everywhere.
I ain't a Cowboy's fan. I actually hate the Cowboys as much as the Steelers or the Vikings. I'm a Bears fan. but in every country I've lived in, there is always a Cowboy's comunnity. For those people who don't follo the NFL, the only team who ever plays is the Cowboys. New England has come second now, after all the media exposure on Tom BRady, etc etc, but before that, there was no team but the Cowboys.

I can't comment on TB because I NEVER SAW HIM PLAY. Neither I saw Marino play, so they weren' the best QBS ever. That's exxactly what makes my pi objective: I ain't following what peopel say or the statistics, because the game has changed a lot, and maybe Drew Brees would have had a thousand more touchdowns if he had played for the 86 Bears instead of the 09 Saints. I can only be objective about the people I saw playing..not the people who "others saw playing" which I only get the highlights of the best games they played.... Just liek I can't say Marciano or Clay were the best boxers or Pele was the best soccer player: because they are more fable stories than reality to me.

About Big Ben, I couldn't like him less as a QB. He can have the numbers you want and win every SuperBowl from now on until he retires and get 16 Rings. He still is not the QB I would be worried about having in the opposite team. Manning, Brady, Montana, Young and Aikman, they do scare me.

Anyway, that's the idea of having an opinion, that everybody sees different things in different players which make them be likeble or hateble. Trying to argue against an opinion with no more facts than an opinion itself is kind of strange. I consider puting FAvre in the list stupid. Ome experts consider he has to be there. Some include Nathan and Marino, you won't consider Dan because he didn't win a Super BOwl and its obvious numbers have a much bigger impact in you than they have in me for example...

That is, precisely, the idea of opinions, to give your own...

Your point of view is very interesting to me. I LOVE this debate but I am biased and will admit it. When I watched Joe Montana and his 49er teams there was a magical quality to it, Joe was just cool and I loved the way he played the game and always will. To me watching Montana was magic and I have yet to see another QB that I feel that way about, regardless of #'s or rings.
 

JEFF4i

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Your point of view is very interesting to me. I LOVE this debate but I am biased and will admit it. When I watched Joe Montana and his 49er teams there was a magical quality to it, Joe was just cool and I loved the way he played the game and always will. To me watching Montana was magic and I have yet to see another QB that I feel that way about, regardless of #'s or rings.

Hey, I'll give Joe my pick for best of all time. Did I watch him play live? No. I saw objectively what he had done and could do, and only in the recent years have I been able to see any of this via NFL Network. I'll give Bradshaw #2, barely behind Joe though. Beyond that? I'd have to do research, a lot of it, which seems to be something in short supply in this thread.


I can't comment on TB because I NEVER SAW HIM PLAY. Neither I saw Marino play, so they weren' the best QBS ever.

And this is why your argument will never hold any water. Which is why I won't be responding with any attempts at intellectual debate as far as this goes with you. There's no point.
 

MCDavis

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Phillip Rivers will break every record ever set by Favre. Why do I say this? Because he graduated from my alma mater, that's why!

And no, little buddy, I won't debate it with you...you're simply wrong. :wink: :mgw: :beach3:
 

xamilo

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And this is why your argument will never hold any water. Which is why I won't be responding with any attempts at intellectual debate as far as this goes with you. There's no point.

I never wanted it to hold any water. There is no point of discusion since I was NEVER arguing with you or trying to convince you, I just posted MY Top 5 QBs as we were supposed to do in this thread. I never said anyone else's pics where wrong and bring statistics on why my idea was totally right; I just gave my opinion, reason why I don't need you to respond with any attemps at inteletual debate, because I really don't care a bit if you like my pics and ain't going to convince you I'm right. Again, I just gave my opinion and it is not going to change....
 

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