My thoughts while I work through reading Hogan's Five Lessons

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Now, see the other effect of increasing the left wrist's supination on the downswing would be to eliminate the hook. That was a big thing with Hogan, he wanted to take the left side of the golf course completely out of play. Now, if you've ever tried to hit a hook, or played with someone who could hook the ball and knew how to do it, you probably know that have to release your wrists so as to get the clubhead to turn over behind the ball, imparting draw spin onto it.

But if you can supinate your left wrist more with this move that Hogan is trying to teach, you aren't going to hook the ball. It's definitely an anti-hook manuever.

Another effect is probably, as I try this out, to get both arms, your left and right arms to completely straighten right around impact with the ball. Now your hands will be well in front, out towards and past your left thigh, but the clubhead will be lagging well behind, and maybe this is what Hogan was trying to achieve -- complete and full extension at the moment of impact with the ball, get this right and you will have hit the ball as hard you can hit the ball, the descending clubhead will trap the ball between the face and the turf, and the ball should shoot out like a rocket, with no fear of the ball going left, it should go straight, or cut with a fade.

 

[Highdraw34]

I haven't had time to test this with actual swings and a ball in front of me, but I think I've realized something this morning while practicing half-swings.

Now, during the back swing, you should be getting wrist cock/supination, but now I think I know what Hogan meant in the part you talk about.

That as hands approach, pulling the clubhead behind, there is the potential to supinate your left wrist even more. Okay? This is quite opposite of what many people do, where they release the clubhead and begin pronating the wrist, adding loft to the club.

As I was trying this with my half-swings, I realized that if you can do this, it's a powerful sort of move, you're getting your hands moving forward faster and the clubhead will accelerate in response being pulled.

I really liked the results of this lesson. The only thing I need to work on is not leaving the ball right. I'm not slicing at all I'm just blocking it right. I can't tell if it is my hips or my hands that are causing this. Also, this lesson only really took hold when I started changing the arc of my downswing to match the drawing where it shows a wider backswing than downswing.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Yeah, backswing is wider than the downswing.

Blocking right sound like you're not really getting your hips going. But that's just a guess without being able to see what's going on.

I got a bit of time to try out the move with increased supination. Not at a range, just a small area where I can hit short pitch shots. It's definitely a move which pretty much stops any decel, and it's result with the half-swing back to half-swing forward was an increase in distance, with lower ball flight using my spare sand wedge.

But I am tempted for the finesse shots not to make this move, and remain with my wrists staying cocked and not try to keep delofting the clubhead this way. But that may be because I would need to practice it and develop a feel again for how far the shots will travel when making this move.

Still, I'm very curious to go to a range soon and try this when making a full swing. I've always been pretty natural at maintaing the wrist cock on the downswing, but I've never before thought to make this move

 

[Highdraw34]

Yeah, backswing is wider than the downswing.

Blocking right sound like you're not really getting your hips going. But that's just a guess without being able to see what's going on.

I got a bit of time to try out the move with increased supination. Not at a range, just a small area where I can hit short pitch shots. It's definitely a move which pretty much stops any decel, and it's result with the half-swing back to half-swing forward was an increase in distance, with lower ball flight using my spare sand wedge.

But I am tempted for the finesse shots not to make this move, and remain with my wrists staying cocked and not try to keep delofting the clubhead this way. But that may be because I would need to practice it and develop a feel again for how far the shots will travel when making this move.

Still, I'm very curious to go to a range soon and try this when making a full swing. I've always been pretty natural at maintaing the wrist cock on the downswing, but I've never before thought to make this move

When exactly do you cock your wrist and do you do it with both? I tend to pull a bit with my right wrist to get my left to cock. I am wondering if changing this a bit will help me feel the supination. I don't really feel if I am supinating correctly.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

I think pretty much everyone naturally cocks their wrists on the backswing, unless you're doing something terribly wrong. It should be a natural result of keeping your left arm straight, if you keep your left arm straight, you'll get that little bit of rotation.

From there, when at the transition into the downswing, lots of people begin casting, throw the club out, then start rolling the wrists forward as they try to get the clubhead back to the inside. That's the worst move that can be made. I think, at the very least, the angle that was obtained during the backswing needs to be maintained, and I've always been fairly natural with that.

But now I think I see what Hogan was saying: on the downswing, you can get even more supination, you get your left wrist leading everything, the little bowing out that forms from the cocking and rotation should bow out even more. How do I describe this? Perhaps you can imagine it as trying to drive the point of the wrist bow towards the target.

Perhaps you could try this. Try doing your swing in slow motion, take your arms back at least to the point that your left arm is straight and parallel to the ground. Hold there, and look at your wrist. You should see that your left hand has rotated slightly, and that your right hand is nearly at a 90 degree angle to your right forearm.

Then make your downswing slowly, using your hips to lead, don't try to do anything with your wrists except that you want to maintain the angle they have obtained on the backswing. This is why it's important for your hips to clear, you have changed the angle of your wrists and club from what they were when you assumed your stance. To get the club back to square, your hips are going to have to clear out. Just slowly rotate through until you get your hands about to where your left thigh is, and look at where the clubhead is, you should find the clubhead still back behind your right leg as it is lagging behind your hands, your left wrist should still have that slight bow, and your right hand should still be at a 90 degree angle to your forearm.

You can also try practicing that with just half-swing back to half-swing forward motions. Take some time to hit a few balls that way, and if you've had a tendency to lose the supine position, well now if you maintain that supine position you should see improvement in how crisply and consistently you can hit a ball with those half-shots.

Now if you've got that, well, Hogan came up with something to get even more out of that. It may be useful to imagine this idea, try taking swings without a club, just your hands in a grip around an imaginary club. Take a half-swing back, then take a swing forward and just maintain the wrist cock.

Do it again, but this time, imagine the heel of your right palm driving into the heel below the left thumb, and in doing so you're going to make the left wrist supinate more, increase the bow of it.

I believe this is the action of supination that Hogan is describing. Where it throws lots of us is we tend to think in an opposite direction.

I tend to think though it is better if you can think of it more in terms of using the bow of the left wrist to lead this, versus driving the right hand's palm heel in to make the left wrist bow more.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Understand though I'm still working this out in my own head, and taking swings at my workdesk. But if I've got this right, it's one of those interesting bits that had escaped me before and could make for finding some more power and distance with my clubs.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

I stopped at a range this evening, with the idea of seeing if I could do this move that Hogan describes, and increase the supination of my left wrist through the downswing.

Oh, I think this is a beauty of a move. I didn't get everything solid, but I definitely got more balls more solid when I got the move right. For me, it would produce a lovely fade, and while using it, I realized, "This pretty well eliminates the left side. Hit this ball this way, and you can count on it not hooking left."

Obviously, there's a reason why Hogan tucked this bit away in Lesson 4. You only want to start working on using this if you've gotten all the other stuff in place. You've got to have the basics of grip, stance, and ball position in place before you even attempt to do what I think may be the final piece of all this. You can still make a good swing without increasing the supination, and make good contact if you just maintain wrist angle that you obtain from the backswing, but this last bit really hammers the final nail on things.

But if you get to that point, this is the piece that eliminates the hook, because it gets you to do the complete opposite of what many people are naturally inclined to do, break the wrists in a forward direction. It's counter intuitive and it's probably why Hogan said something to the effect of doing everything in a rather unnatural way.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Ahh, I found the quote:

"Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing."

--Ben Hogan

 

[Augster]

When exactly do you cock your wrist and do you do it with both? I tend to pull a bit with my right wrist to get my left to cock. I am wondering if changing this a bit will help me feel the supination. I don't really feel if I am supinating correctly.

If you have the grip correct, your left thumb should be ON TOP of the shaft when the club is half-way back, parallel to the ground. It will have rotated "open" just that little bit from address.

At the top of the swing, your thumb should be under the shaft. Supporting it. This way you know you've cocked your wrist, and cocked it close to correctly. Your shaft should be somewhere above your shoulders and PARALLEL (plane-wise with the shaft) to the target line at the top.

From there you fire your hips and give your arms the free ride. If you are blocking it, your hips aren't getting out of the way yet. If you start pulling it, you are starting your downswing with your arms/hands.

On page 101, in bold, Hogan writes:

"At impact the back of the left hand faces toward your TARGET. The wrist bone is definitely raised. It points to the TARGET and, at the moment the ball is contacted, it is out in front, nearer to the target than any part of the hand."

I must have mis-read this before. He says the back of the hand faces the target at impact. This alone tells of a slightly open face. I had always had the back of my left hand facing down the parallel left target line. Thus, either a straight shot, or a draw/hook. I'll have to give it a whirl and see if I can start hitting cuts.

One last thing about Hogan, he writes on page 105:

"To start with, most golfers-whether or not they actually achieve it in their swings-have the mistaken idea that at the moment of impact both arms should be straightened out their full length. This, of course, isn't right. AT IMPACT THE RIGHT ARM IS STILL BENT SLIGHTLY. On the downswing the right arm gradually straightens out as it comes into the ball, but it isn't until the clubhead is two feet or so past the ball that it straightens out completely."

So make sure at impact your right elbow is still a bit bent and in front of your right hip, just above your right quad.

I'll have to try that bit with the wrist actually pointing at the TARGET at impact.

 

[Highdraw34]

If you have the grip correct, your left thumb should be ON TOP of the shaft when the club is half-way back, parallel to the ground. It will have rotated "open" just that little bit from address.

At the top of the swing, your thumb should be under the shaft. Supporting it. This way you know you've cocked your wrist, and cocked it close to correctly. Your shaft should be somewhere above your shoulders and PARALLEL (plane-wise with the shaft) to the target line at the top.

From there you fire your hips and give your arms the free ride. If you are blocking it, your hips aren't getting out of the way yet. If you start pulling it, you are starting your downswing with your arms/hands.

On page 101, in bold, Hogan writes:

"At impact the back of the left hand faces toward your TARGET. The wrist bone is definitely raised. It points to the TARGET and, at the moment the ball is contacted, it is out in front, nearer to the target than any part of the hand."

I must have mis-read this before. He says the back of the hand faces the target at impact. This alone tells of a slightly open face. I had always had the back of my left hand facing down the parallel left target line. Thus, either a straight shot, or a draw/hook. I'll have to give it a whirl and see if I can start hitting cuts.

One last thing about Hogan, he writes on page 105:

"To start with, most golfers-whether or not they actually achieve it in their swings-have the mistaken idea that at the moment of impact both arms should be straightened out their full length. This, of course, isn't right. AT IMPACT THE RIGHT ARM IS STILL BENT SLIGHTLY. On the downswing the right arm gradually straightens out as it comes into the ball, but it isn't until the clubhead is two feet or so past the ball that it straightens out completely."

So make sure at impact your right elbow is still a bit bent and in front of your right hip, just above your right quad.

I'll have to try that bit with the wrist actually pointing at the TARGET at impact.

I started to feel these things come together yesterday at the range. I was hitting my four iron when I finally got everything on the right page. I took me a while to groove it and get it consistant but the contact I felt with the ball yesterday is something I have never felt in my short golfing life. It was amazing to say the least. Whether or not it translates on the course will be seen today.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

It's an amazing move, and counter intuitive, but boy, when you get it right in the framework of solid swing mechanics as written about the prior lessons, it's an amazing thing.

 

[Highdraw34]

It's an amazing move, and counter intuitive, but boy, when you get it right in the framework of solid swing mechanics as written about the prior lessons, it's an amazing thing.

This book has been great. It is going to take a good bit of time for the lessons to feel natural to me but this is far and away the best golf instruction book ever written.

 

[Eracer]

A pic for you RBB.

This is a Highlands Cattle. A very old breed that lives in Scotland.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

A pic for you RBB.

This is a Highlands Cattle. A very old breed that lives in Scotland.

That fellow looks pretty ornery. Nice picture, thank you.

 

[bdcrowe]

Obviously, there's a reason why Hogan tucked this bit away in Lesson 4. You only want to start working on using this if you've gotten all the other stuff in place. You've got to have the basics of grip, stance, and ball position in place before you even attempt to do what I think may be the final piece of all this. You can still make a good swing without increasing the supination, and make good contact if you just maintain wrist angle that you obtain from the backswing, but this last bit really hammers the final nail on things.

I'm interested in your final decision on this, since you've moved to the finer points of the lessons.