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Natural Golf-Moe Norman style

3Bogey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
96
0
Anybody have any success with Natural golf or Todd Graves version of it. I have been curious since I have been doing a little research on Moe Norman, considered one of the best ball strikers of all time. As a special ed teacher, I was quite intrigued about Norman who many claim had Autsim, a disability that affects social ability and sensory integration, but interstingly enough have phemominal or savant like ability at a particular skill, in Normans case hitting a golf ball. People who do not know what Autsim is can relate better to the movie Rainman. In fact Norman himself was called the "Rainman of Golf". He was quite a golfer from some articles I have read. Anyway, he apparently had the equivelent of the perfect golf swing according to science that was first introduced or invented by Jack Kuykendall a physicist who now spends all of his time trying to figure out the perfect golf swing as science would have it. Apparently he had a fall out with the company and started a new swing called Lever Power Golf which is his latest invention and quite radical and way to emabarrising to perform in front of your buddies. Todd Graves also studied Norman's swing and said to be a desciple, has his own version. You have to attend a school which is very expensive. I'm quite interested in it since it does seem like less moving parts and makes a lot of sense. Any success out there with Natural Golf??
 

Mors Ab Alto

New Member
Aug 28, 2006
228
0
I posted a related thread on another golf forum a while back and got very mixed responses. I personally thought that Moe Norman was an amazing talent, but his condition made success on the pro tour almost impossible. I used to watch his exhibitions on TV and marvel at how effortlessly he could command the ball. As far as his teaching is concerned, I'm not sure you CAN teach natural golf. I think it's just natural to some people, Moe included. There have been some people who have been able to use his methods to improve their swing, but for the most part, the average player will have a tendency to fight the odd feeling one has standing over the ball with their arms, legs and back in the "natural" position.

I tried it, and found a little success using the straight left arm/shaft method with my driver. But, recently I have reverted to a more "shaft/plane" oriented swing and find it much more natural for me.

I say try it, but don't expect an overnight miracle. If it works for you, then all the better. If it doesn't, you can still watch old footage of Moe anyway. Good luck.
 

benk

Ben
Dec 4, 2006
84
0
dfas

I never tried it, but I do know this about the Natural Golf style. It is very easy to hit straight, but distance is a issue. That is why it has never taken off, just like Moe norman, it lacked distance.
 

Naitch

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2007
3
0
I am a firm believer of Swinging Like Moe, and have attended schools offered by Graves Golf Academy(GGA), the foremost teachers of Moe's swing. I couldn't break 120. Natural golf got me to breaking 90 half the time, but GGA has helped me lower my handicap to 4.9, and there is no doubt this coming season I will be scratch. As far as distance, benk, I would venture to say, almost everyone who receives proper instruction on Moe's swing increases their distance. I know I am satisfied with my 150 yd 9I.

Moe's swing is simply the most simple and efficient way to swing a golf club. And yes, Mors Ab Alto, it can be taught, and taught very well. Moe's eccentricities never allowed him to fit in on the Pro tour. I think someone who set 30 course records, shot 59 three times, 61 four, would have been able to make it. Many PGA pros will say he was the best ball-striker to ever live.

You can find out all you want at swinglikemoe.com There is a link to a very open chat forum, where you will find many, many, many satisfied students of the Moe Norman swing.
 
OP
3Bogey

3Bogey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
96
0
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #5
Naitch, What is the difference???

Naitch, What is the major difference between Graves teaching and Natural Golf. It appears that everything looks the same as far as the grip and single axis plane setup which if I'm not misunderstood is the foundation of the Natural swing. Norman had more of a shoulder turn as he got older which maybe the difference?? Could you elaborate a little more on the difference??
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
Natural golf is the most un-natural looking thing I have ever seen.
 

Naitch

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2007
3
0
The major difference is the grip. Natural golf teaches a 10 finger grip, where The Graves' teach an overlapping grip, the grip Moe played with during his competitive play and throughout most of his life. It wasn't until late in his life and his association with Natural Golf that he played a 10 finger grip. The grip is the most important factor, without a good grip, you can't get in a proper setup and acheive proper hand movement.I was also taught a few things by a Natural golf instructor that Moe really didn't do. Todd went and studied under Moe. He knows Moe's swing better than anyone. From my perspective, Natural golf is a mixture of Moe's swing and Kukendall's philosophies, which can work, I guess. It's just that why deviate from the best ball striker of all time. I might add, that I hope I didn't make it sound like my success was overnight with a magic elixir. I have been playing about 5 years with A LOT of diligent practice. But...I know a lot of people who've been playing 20-30 years who I can easily smoke.
 
OP
3Bogey

3Bogey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
96
0
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #8
Naitch what grip??

The grip is what really turns me on about natural golf. I have really small hands and the overlap is difficult even with the smallest of grips. I have always had better success with the 10 finger but always had a very strong left grip(Im right handed). Natural golf teaches everything backwards from my old grip. You put the club in the palm which flattens out the left wrist and makes it very weak. And then your right hand is just the opposite, it is very strong. What I like about this type of grip is you can hold your target line much longer. I am concerned about distance because there is not alot of wrist cock unless I'm doing something wrong. I could really get good wrist cock from a strong left handed grip. I don't know it may be my anatomy
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I also like the feel of the non-tapered or Natural golf grips that they have. Naitch do you use these?? Probably not since you are using the overlap. Kukendall claims that these grips are not USGA legal but after his fall out with Natural Golf he has nothing good to say about them or their products anyway. Does any one know if these are legal??? I know Feel grips are legal which are reversed tapered and they appear to be way more radical than the Natural Golf Grip.
 

Golfnut

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2007
1
0
Graves Golf

Hi everyone,

I started with Natural Golf, mainly because I was told it was less strainful on my back.
I progressed from 22 to 15 the first year. My distance was not hurt at all with NG, as my 7 iron was always 150, and remained so.

I took lessons with Graves Golf in 2002, and I have progressed to 8 handicap. I have shot a personal best 73 on a par 72, slope of 134 at River Road, London, Ontario, one of the tightest courses around.

When someone claims loss of distance with Natural Golf/ Moe Norman style, they only have to look at Kelly Murray, from the last Big Break, who is a Natural Golf Instructor, and has won 104 out of 129 long driving championships, and set the record at the Manitoba open at 60 with 30 strokes and 30 putts.

Kelly also holds the world record drive 684 yds on a 30yd wide airstrip, beating the previous record by over 57 yds.

Tim Graves is also a long hitter, with over 300yds drives the norm.

It is a simpler, more efficient way to play the game, and certainly can help anyone with a back or other physical problems... Less moving parts.

The Graves Academy has produced some of the best Video material, their 7 part series entitled, Anatomy of a Scratch Golfer, I'd highly recommend it!
 

Naitch

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2007
3
0
The grip is KEY. I can't stress enough how important the placement of your hands on the club are. An improper grip leads to over/under rotation of the club, and a real fight to keep the club on plane. The 10 finger grip can work, but it is much easier to keep the hands unified with an overlap. I don't have big hands but the overlap is not a problem. I've put my hands up against Todd and Tim's, Tim's are the same size as mine, Todd's just a little smaller. Hand size isn't an issue. As far the the Natural Golf grips to go on the club, I personally don't care for them. I found that after I put regular old GolfPride grips on my clubs, I didn't have the tendency to squeeze the heck out of the club.

I invite you to venture over to GGA's chat forum, you can get there through swinglikemoe.com there is a link to the forum at the bottom of the home page. Being new to this forum, it would not allow me to post a link. Look for grip discussion there. Feel free to ask Todd or Tim a question. Given their schedule they are usually very good about replying. They give away so much free information over there, more than any other teaching pro would dream of.

Make a post in the Playing Partner Search forum. Someone in your area might be a student of Graves Golf Academy, and I'm sure would be willing play a round with you. Everyone on the GGA staff is a class act all the way. They are totally committed to helping you acheive your golf goals.

And LyleG, while you may not like the way Moe's swing looks, when is the last time you ever drew a picture on your scorecard? It's all about keeping the ball in play, getting it on the green, and making putts.
 

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