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Pelz V Rotella

Discussion in 'General Golf Talk' started by dave., Nov 14, 2005.

  1. dave.

    dave. Well-Known Member

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    On putting

    I really can't watch Pelz,its far to analytical for me.yes there are some technical aspects to putting,but not many,and all the great putters have had idiosycratic strokes,Ioki and casper spring to mind and a couple,like Bobby Locke and Billy Mayfair actually putt with sidespin.

    Rotella will help you to trust your talents and putt with confidecne,he maintains good putting starts and ends in the mind.Pelz has you worrying about all sorts of things.

    I'm a Rotella man myself,I putt ten times better after reading Rotella,I just want to smash the TV when pelz is on.
     
  2. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    LOL, I remember your previous anti-Pelz rants. :D

    Putt Like the Pros was the first golf instruction book that I really enjoyed reading, I guess because Pelz seemed so dedicated in his quest for a scientific method of improving putting.

    I rarely catch one of his spots on TGC, but I watch them when I do, if only for the humor in watching the 30 handicappers futz their shots. "Hey, that looks like me!!"
     
  3. dave.

    dave. Well-Known Member

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    the humor in watching the 30 handicappers futz their shots

    Would that be Friar 'Eddie' Tuck by any chance?
     
  4. Wheelerm

    Wheelerm GET IN THE HOLE!

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    Lol i saw people on the Golf Channel that had 30 handicaps, they are not very good at all
     
  5. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    I don't know Friar 'Eddie' Tuck, sorry.

    My thought was that for these folks to have a 30 handicapper, they must be cheating worse than I do. :D
     
  6. dave.

    dave. Well-Known Member

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    Friar Tuck is his son,or otherwise called 'Eddie'
     
  7. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    Ohh. No, I haven't seen anyone but Pelz, Sr., and the gang of geriatric 30 handicappers. And I still don't believe any of them could break 110 without cheating.
     
  8. IrishGolfer

    IrishGolfer Fac ut gaudeam Supporting Member

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    in or on? ;)

    What else you got on that list?
     
  9. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

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    dave, we should form an anti-Pelz fan club ;)

    But I do disagree on something.
    Pelz isn't technical at all, he's just blurting out statistics on what players do...
     
  10. dave.

    dave. Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Loop.he has made money telling people how to putt poorly,fair play to him,he takes all instinct out of putting and makes you watch his obese son and a silly wire robot
     
  11. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    I attended a clinic here about 15 years ago which Rotella conducted. Spent a few minutes with him.

    As you can imagine - he has a very serene personality...kind of like "totally monotone dude"..."see the shot".."stay in the moment".

    "Commit hari kari if you miss that two footer". Not.

    After a few minutes, I almost converted to buddism and began the life of a monk.
     
  12. Farquod

    Farquod Short Game Tragedy

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    OK, I'll defend Pelz, since no one else seems to want to.

    Feel players will not like Pelz, although what eventually develops from using his method is superior feel. Ironic that, no?

    He is a rocket scientist, so he employs the scientific method, as noted by the good Russian animal mechanic. Observation and measurement are key to that method. Ya gotta know what to fix before you can fix it.

    He uses targeted training aids to show the desired way to perform specific portions of tasks, or to demonstrate the results of specific efforts. This is a bad thing?

    Lotsa pros use him, and Phil did not win a major until he worked with him.

    The apple does not fall far from the tree, er, the acorn reflects the oak, er, they're both substantial men. But they own a Lear jet, so you'll never have to worry about being squished between them on a coast-to-coast hop as they go from their school in Palm Springs to the one in Boca Raton. Thoughtful, no?

    The wire robot just proves Pelz's points. It certainly was damn convincing to me when I saw that the arc swing was an optical illusion.

    Not everyone is Bobby Locke.

    Oh, yeah, he was a + hcp in his chubby youth.

    Bring it on, boys.
     
  13. IrishGolfer

    IrishGolfer Fac ut gaudeam Supporting Member

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    Am I getting the hang of it now?
     
  14. IrishGolfer

    IrishGolfer Fac ut gaudeam Supporting Member

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    Onto the subject in hand, I have read stuff by both guys. Rotella wrote "Golf is not a game of perfect", right? He also wrote something on putting, which I have read and stuffed in a box somewhere. I kinda lean towards him as putting is all about feel imho. Yes, I will accept that some of the mechanics have to be there, but you have to be there mentally there to hole a 10ft. clutch putt. No matter how pure the stroke, the visualisation thing is essential. IMO Bob Boy does that better.

    I just wish I could take the advice. All things considered I am a crap putter, and practice as I might, I cannot get consistency from one day to the next. On any given day I cannot get the ball in the hole.
     
  15. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

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    IG, you talking about golf here? ;)

    Farquod, you bring up some good points.
    And while I do not know much about Rotella, except some of his occasional insights I read in golf mags, here are the things I do know about Pelz:
    - Pelz makes statistics about putting style and grips. Seen a whole article devoted to it. I fail to see how this can be useful, except that "Oh I have a putting style like 60% on the guys on Tour...".
    - A Pelz show on TGC about statistics on ball closest to the hole when chipping, sand save and putting depending on the player's handicap. In short, his conclusion is that the hacker hacks, and the scratch play good.... Please tell me this show is super useful.
    - Seen an article on how to skip a ball on the water.
    - A show on how to read greens and breaks, when actually all he tells about is that people under read greens. So the point is, he didn't tell us how to read greens...
    - A show on stimpmeter and his marketing for a Pelz meter.
    - Does he teach technique? Absolutely not.
    - Does he teach something new, like chipping the same, but with a different club? No.
    - Does he take us for stupid when he tells us that people don't hit the sweetspot and that they should? Yes.
    - Is he a NASA scientist? I guess.
    - Does he get a fat paycheck? Absolutely.
    - He and his son are sweating like bulls. Ever heard of RightGuard?

    And I told this once, but I read somewhere that one day he took some time off to play golf and he shot 84. A great score for a short game teacher....

    Wow! Huge ramblings....
     
  16. Farquod

    Farquod Short Game Tragedy

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    In his defense, he devotes an entire chapter to it in his putting bible, and does a nice job of it overall.

    However, his discussion of how severely we underread breaks messed me up for a good while. Visible versus actual break...that we only see about 1/3 of the real break....that really screwed me up. I dumped that idea after 2 rounds.

    Which is a point to be made...take what works for you, discard what don't....


    Cool, quick story. I took lessons down in Naples, FL a couple of years ago with a guy named Dennis Mayer. Pretty good, except he really wanted to change my draw to a fade, and man, I don't hit it that far. Anyway, this bit you note here, about chipping with different clubs, I picked up from Mike Adams in his book, How to Break 90. Anyway, I go through my chipping with Dennis, and he notes what I'm doing by figuring what club to use, and he's floored. Says I'm the first of his students to use the technique, and where did I learn it? So I tell him about the Mike Adams book, and he smiles. It turns out that he was taught by Paul Runyon ("Little Poison") whose short game was legendary, and that it was his system I was using. Runyon played in the 1930s and 40s. Pretty cool, no? :cool:
     
  17. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    GREAT story Farquod...I would love to hear more about it...where can I get more info?? I guess I will look up the book on Google..any other ideas?
     
  18. Farquod

    Farquod Short Game Tragedy

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    No need, Bravo, it's pretty simple. You break the chip into two segments: A) distance to the landing point on the green, and B) distance from the landing point to the cup. Divide B by A, round to the nearest whole number, and subtract from 12. That gives you your club.

    F'rinstance, say you're 12 feet off the green. Generally, you'll want to land it a yard or so onto the green, then let it roll to the hole. I'll pace that off; say for argument's sake it comes to 5 paces or 5 yards. Then say there's another 10 paces to the hole. 10/5=2. 12-2=10, which means use a pitching wedge. You chip the ball to land on the spot, and it should run the remaining distance to the hole.

    Try it. It may take a bit of getting used to, but with clean contact on the chip, it is a very accurate method. ;)
     
  19. Farquod

    Farquod Short Game Tragedy

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    Remember, KA, this scenario is for chipping, not pitching. The ratio adjusts for carry versus roll, and makes the presumption that, as irons get longer, carry decreases and roll increases, and visa versa. Also, remember that landing a ball on the green might not be the answer in all situations. So:

    1. Pitch to the spot you describe using a lob or sand wedge, whichever has less bounce. That will help the ball to check if you hit it clean. Not my choice.

    2. Depending on how closely the first cut is, er, cut, and taking the topography into consideration, you might pick a spot in the middle, say 6', and chip to that with your pitching wedge, which has about a 1:1 carry/roll ratio. If it's not shorn as closely as your native Scottish lambkins during shearing season, then maybe a 9 iron to get a little more roll.

    3. However, for the scenario you describe, with all of 12' to a tight pin, I'm gonna putt it. My misses will be more manageable that way. :)

    I tend not to use the system if the ratio is less than 1:1, because that situation is invariably a pitch, requiring more carry than roll. It also does not work for anything other than the first cut, or perhaps a good lie in the second cut. It does not work from the rough, again, where a pitch is indicated.

    Or do you putt from the rough? ;)
     
  20. Big Brother Dunk

    Big Brother Dunk Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Farquod on this one. I like what Pelz has to say. If you want to be technically sound, Pelz's method is solid.

    That being said, I'm a big proponent of the "feel" approach to golf. However I think it's important to be technically consistent, then you can more easily trust your feel.
     

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