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Ping Irons' standard lie angles
- Thread starter hypergolf
- Start date
I just checked, and all the specs are there. If it is a current model iron you are interested in, clip on "irons" and then click on the specific model at the bottom of the page. The specs for that iron model will come up. If it's a older model iron, click on "classics", under the irons, and then there is a scroll menu that allows you to see specs of many of them. The charts are for black dot, standard length.
If you continue to have difficulty, let us know which specific iron you are interested in. Then, I'll attempt to cut and paste that info from the Ping site.
Ping's "standard" has changed, slightly, during the years. Karsten believed the Zing through ISI models had some "toe droop" during the dynamic swing and would come through the ball differently than did the Eye 2 and + lines. Then, with the I10/G10 they've gone to a color code system that does not follow degree by degree segments. So, it's difficult to state a "standard" without knowing the exact model we're talking about.
Sorry to be so evasive with an answer. Revisit PING : Play Your Best and see if you have any better luck!!!
If you continue to have difficulty, let us know which specific iron you are interested in. Then, I'll attempt to cut and paste that info from the Ping site.
Ping's "standard" has changed, slightly, during the years. Karsten believed the Zing through ISI models had some "toe droop" during the dynamic swing and would come through the ball differently than did the Eye 2 and + lines. Then, with the I10/G10 they've gone to a color code system that does not follow degree by degree segments. So, it's difficult to state a "standard" without knowing the exact model we're talking about.
Sorry to be so evasive with an answer. Revisit PING : Play Your Best and see if you have any better luck!!!
Pa Jayhawk
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2005
- 7,200
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As Limpalong said, they are on the site. Although they do not list them by the color specification. So the specs you see are for the standard, or "Black Dot". If you need specs for the others, they explain what each color is in degrees, so for example you would simply adjust the Blue dot 1* upright.
So, for example, here is the i10, where if you look at the center column, that is the lie for a black dot.
PING : i10 Irons
So, for example, here is the i10, where if you look at the center column, that is the lie for a black dot.
PING : i10 Irons
- Sep 23, 2004
- 2,822
- 3
If the Mizzies fit you then you can just order your PINGs as red dot (1* flat) or maybe orange dot (2* flat). That's the beauty of PING as you'll get fit and then they'll come from the factory adjusted perfectedly for you.
Mizzy's standard is flatter than most. Cobra and Callaway are the most upright. Ping and Titty somewhere in between.
Mizzy has stayed with pretty "traditional" lie angles. When Cobra brought out the King Cobra line in the early 90's, their "standard" was a couple of degrees upright. All those who had been struggling to hit draws with their irons, suddenly thought they were God's gift to the game! The more upright lie angle allowed the toe to close and the ball to travel right to left. With the success of the more upright lies, we began to see many of the OEM's creep upright. With the ISI line, Ping crept theirs up a tad too.
PING lie angles are no win .75 degree increments due to new digital gauges they use. However, the .25 degree change does not make much difference (even a PING rep told me that). Current PING irons all have the same lie angle specs, regardless of model. The S58 irons (and the S59 before them) are one to 1.5 degree weaker (i.e 47.5 degrees of loft in a PW as opposed to 46 degrees) is loft. All other new irons have lofts calibrated the same (a G10 6 iron has the same loft as a Rapture 6 iron).
Again, depends on which model you're considering. Up until the I10/G10 release, red was 1 degree flat. When the I10/G10 lines were released, so was a new color chart with some new color codes we hadn't seen before. If you're looking at the I10/G10 line, the red is .75 flat.
Honestly, most amateurs cannot tell the difference between 1 degree of lie angle, let alone 3/4 degree. If your swing repeats to 1 degree from swing to swing and round to round and week to week... you have grooved a swing most of us would die for. If you want lie angles equal to your Mizzys, you will need to do a spreadsheet comparison. Pull up the Mizzy website and you can get the Mizuno standard loft angles from 3 through W. Then, do the same with the model of Ping you are looking at. Overlay the two with Excel, or even just written down on paper, and I think you will see an "interesting" take that a simply "one dot" flat won't completely take care of. You may find the long irons flatter, yet, with Mizzys and the short irons not that flat compared to other OEM offerings.
What you will see is, again, the perceived effect of toe droop in the long irons. Many of the OEM's... most who produce game improvement irons... will feel the dyanmic swing will allow the toe of the club to "droop" during the swing. That is enhanced in the longer irons vs. the shorter irons.
What I'm driving at is this. You can work this all out on paper and not really accomplish anything except wasting all that paper. Find a Ping fitter somewhere and get dynamically fit. If it is impossible to find a Ping fitter, at least go through the static fitting offered on their website. You may find you physical characteristics and/or your swing would be better able to perform with something completely different that the Mizuno "standard" you've become used to.
danscustomgolfshop
Well-Known Member
- Oct 11, 2007
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I have a tough time buying into this. If the set of irons were built correctly then the long iron toe droop is addressed through the tipping of a shaft. A PW will toe droop the same amount at the 3 iron - due to heavier head weight and a progressively stiffer shaft.
As far as lie angle verses length the math modeled True Length Technology TM fitting will give you correct lies and progressive lengths. If you review a bunch of OEM sites you will see a large variety of lie angles - but most build to the same length. How can all these companies - with all these variables - all claim correctness in their standards?
1 degree of lie angle in a PW - from 100 yards will result in a 22 foot miss so I cannot agree that 1 degree of lie error is acceptable.
Guess I'd like to see how this is a valid number. Certainly, I could see how moving a plane at 100 yards out from 90 degrees to 89 or 91 would result in the "triangluation" of 22 feet. This, however, has zero relation to lie angle.
If there is an effect of incorrect lie angle is would be the toe dragging, allowing the club face to open... too flat. Or, the opposite... too upright... would allow the heel to drag and the face to close. How much the toe closes or opens is dependant on many variables... depth of divot, club speed, strength of the person swinging the club, etc.
As a person tires during a round... or as someone like us old men loosen up the old joints... it is not uncommon to see the dynamic swing change slightly. There are numerous things having to do with a person's occupation or physical abilities that could see a significant variable in the dynamic swing from week to week. Those who profess that a set of clubs has to be fit to within a single degree of lie angle are kidding themselves and the customers... unless the fitter is working with a single digit capper who has a very repeating swing.
Golf Digest, some years ago, sent 4 golfers of various skill levels to Henry Griffiths, Callaway, Titleist, and Wilson factory fitters. The results were amazing! Not one of the four was fit to the same specs at any one of the factory fitting sessions. One golfer rec'd specs that were 4 degrees different in lie angle requirements. Three out of the four were fit for different shaft flexes at at least one of the fitting sessions. There, simply, is not an exact science when it comes to fitting something as unique as the human body and its joint/muscle responses.
Lastly... toe droop. In a dynamic swing sequence, the larger iron heads DO tend to "reverse bend" the shafts. I've seen it in slow motion, stop action replays of actual dynamic swings. How much the toe droops, again, depends on a number of factors... swing speed, shaft design, clubhead geometry. Something like a G10 Ping will have more toe droop than, say, a MP33 Mizzy if hung on the same shaft and the same swing speed.
Many of the manufacturers... Ping, Mizuno, etc... use taper tip shafts. There is no tip trimming possible with the taper tips. You can tip trim parallel shafts but, then, you have flex issues. Why not leave the shafts as designed... as has worked quite well for decades for tour players and amateur golfers... and vary the lie angle slightly?? A degree or two tweak of lie angles is much easier to perform than attempting to trim shafts, isn't it?
danscustomgolfshop
Well-Known Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 55
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The quote of a 22 foot miss came directly from Ralph Maltby during my Masters Class. It is a combination of side spin and misdirectional control based on the 1 degree of lie error.
Sorry, but 1 degree of error is not acceptable, and is detectable in ball flight.
The toe digging issue happens after the ball has left the face as the divot comes after the ball.
Length and lie are directly related and must be setup correctly if you want to take the game seriously.
If you have a 9 iron 1 degree flat and a wedge 1 degree upright, your ability to hit target will suffer. Both length and lie are primary fitting factors.
Sorry, but 1 degree of error is not acceptable, and is detectable in ball flight.
The toe digging issue happens after the ball has left the face as the divot comes after the ball.
Length and lie are directly related and must be setup correctly if you want to take the game seriously.
If you have a 9 iron 1 degree flat and a wedge 1 degree upright, your ability to hit target will suffer. Both length and lie are primary fitting factors.
- 22 feet on a PW seems reasonable to me - take a look at the example he shows about 1:30-2:00 into this video YouTube - Ralph Maltby - Iron Lie Angle (Expert Golf Advice)
Dan - I think you have some good points here - I agree 1 degree of error is not acceptable (not in my clubs anyway) - unfortunately, +/- 1* is the spec for most of the big companies. your example of a -1* 9 iron and a +1* PW must happen all the time - and based on the 22' stat thrown around before there could be a ~35-40' difference directionally between those two clubs - it's amazing any of us ever hit any greens when we started out - thankfully many of us were too inconsistent to notice
I liked this explanation of putter lie angle too YouTube - Ralph Malby - How Lie Angle Affects Your Putting
danscustomgolfshop
Well-Known Member
- Oct 11, 2007
- 55
- 0
Corect lie an a putter is a must.
We used Ralphs putting robot to show how important. With the toe up the robot missed left - every time.
With the toe down the robot missed right every time.
Square it never missed and this was a 22 foot putt if I remember correctly.
Lie is god, but it must be related to length. This is why True Length Technology TM became a reality.
All clubs with a correct length & lie - tied into your athletic address position for a common swing. Nothing is more repeatable or accurate than True Length TechnologyTM. Now you just need to execute the shot.
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