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Question for Canucks

warbirdlover

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Jul 9, 2005
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How well does your Canadian Healthcare system really work? Please give details. My wife and I are discussing socialized medicine vs. our US system.

Thanks for the help...

Others may chime in with their comments also... :)
 

Rockford35

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How well does it work?

It works great - unless you need it. :D

To be fair, the system works fine for the most part. The troubles of which you hear are somewhat far and few between, but there are troubles like nursing shortages and doctors leaving for better prospects. It's tough to have a procedure done when there are only a few specialists in a specific area of the body thoughout the country (IE: there is a heart specialization centre in Edmonton, but that's the closest one we have here concerning transplants).

The trouble with any social project is when it's taken advantage of. If you, for example, are a smoker, you are much more of a bain on the system. The statistics don't lie. However, with private medicine, your rates are significantly higher if you are a smoker. This isn't possible in the social method.

In my brief stints with the health system, I've been nothing but pleased. The delivery of our child, my father's recent passing and previous hospital stays have been relatively event free and without anything to note about. So, I can't say that I've been right in the thick of things, as there are always the extremes of which I spoke of earlier.

That being said, if given the opportunity to not have to walk past people smoking outside the hospital and know that I'm first on the list when I walk in, I would gladly pay money towards that.

How much? Well, that's the golden ticket, right?

R35
 

MIKE1218

Top Bloke
Dec 21, 2006
3,485
6
Obviously I have no experience with the Canadian system. The problem I have with privatized medicine is this: is it right that because you make more money than I you can get a better doctor, and therefore a better chance at life (assuming a life-threatening illness)? Of course there are gonna be some flaws, like the doctors leaving to make some real $$$. I still think socialized medicine could be far, far better if implemented correctly.

My government has always thought it was fair, but I still don't. I guess the gov hotshots (and the high earners, some of whom probably populate this forum) don't want any disadvantaged individuals getting any healthcare before they do.

Either way, I don't trust doctors or healthcare, never will probably. I've seen a lot of BS directed at my parents through 'doctors'. I realize they don't give a shit if I am sick or not, they just want my money and thats it.
 

Riverologist

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Jan 27, 2009
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Having gone through cancer treatments 6 years ago for Hodgkin Disease and knee surgery I have a fair amount of experience. My father-in-law is also a family doctor.

The big thing is waitlists.

Orthopedics for knees, hips, etc...you are looking at a year wait just to get a consult appointment. MRI's are booking 6 months down the road (pay $800 and get one tomorrow). Simple visits to a dermatologist are booking 3 months down the road.
Need to see a GI speciality, urgent referals are 3-4 months. Routine Colonoscopy , you will be waiting almost two years if you have no family history problems.

Here in Alberta surgeries there are under a dozen Lap Band and Gastric bypass surgeries done a year. They would rather let people needing these procedures be treated for diabetes and heart disease instead of just avoiding the costs involved in that and let them get the surgeries. Instead its forcing many to go to places in Mexico and get shotty proceedures and then pay for their complications up here in Canada.

My own experience with being diagnosed with cancer. They tell me I have cancer but need to run a wide range of tests to determine the severity. It took over 6 weeks to get CT scans, bone scans, biopsies, etc done. Then it was another 2-3 weeks after that to start actually chemo therapy treatments.
I needed special medication to fight the nausea and to rebuild my WBC count to keep on a rigid treatment schedule. Nothing covered. Medications were $2000/month. I had just finished university and looking for work so I didn't have coverage anywhere. Wait list to get Bluecross (gov't run healthcare coverage) was 3 months.
They pump you full of toxic chemotherapy for free but don't pay for the treatments to combat it.

My father-in-law has many fairly well off patients that go to the states to specialists, treatments and procedures. How can you expect someone to take over a year off work to get knee replacements? And the brutal part is that while they are waiting to get a knee operations the only thing they can do for them is pump them full of narcotics to help control the pain. By time a year goes by they are hooked on pills and now have a new problem to deal with.

I'm not sure what the answer is but it isn't prefect up here by a mile.
 

Esox

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Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2008
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That's an interesting testimonial. I think many Americans have a broad perception that the Canadian health care system entails these types of delays and wait lists, but rarely do Canadians admit these perceptions can be correct. There's a couple of musky fishing forums where I participate, and many Canadians deny these problems are prevalent. When I fished in Canada a couple years ago we had a guide with back and knee problems that described the wait lists as you do. He was a carpenter in the off season and basically could not work while he waited for what in the States would be straightforward and quickly applied procedures. Some of the things you dealt with while being treated for cancer must have been pretty hard to accept.

How is the Canadian system mainly funded? I know that taxes on tobacco and alcohol are very high, but is the rest done through income tax? Your population is so small compared to the States, that the logistics have to be simpler.

When, and I say when not if because I think some sort of national system is inevitable here in the States, I can't imagine how a clogged system could possibly be avoided. When you have large cities filled with unemployed welfare recipients with multiple children, I think it's safe to assume that every sniffle and scrape will send people to the doctor.

As a small business owner, I fear the funding of a national system will be crushing. There was talk of a state system here in WI where payments would be based on a percentage of income. The range in percentages were so vast that as a small business owner in a cyclical business, it would have made absolutely no sense for me to work hard during a boom year, as a very considerable chunk of my income would have went to health care. Far more than if I was paying my already exorbitant rates. This would have been devastating to my family as some years are much better than others, and if we can't make and save money during the good times, it is hardly worth owning our business.

I'm torn with national health care as I want to be left alone to determine what I feel is best for me and my family, yet children and the elderly deserve better coverage than they probably receive in some cases in this country.

Kevin
 

Riverologist

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Jan 27, 2009
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For the most part, every province is responsible for it's own healthcare system. There is some federal money, but provinces like Alberta pay for "have not" provinces' through transfer payments.

The cost is raised through taxes of course and some provinces have monthly health premium to be paid. Here in Alberta they just got rid of the fee (for my wife, myself and my son we payed $80/month.) Lots of bigger companies paid this on behalf of their employees as a benefit but it wasn't a requirement.

I think you'll find the majority of those Canadians that say the health system here is great have never been sick or have had anyone close to them be sick. They haven't had to deal with waitlists, doctor shortages, etc.

Here in Calgary, 200,000 Calgarians are without a family doctor. They are forced to wait hours in "walk in" clinics to be seen and it is difficult for those that have chronic health problems to be seen and get the level of care needed to treat such chronic problems.

In my father-in-law's practice, it takes sometimes over a week to get an appointment with him. Full check up appointments are being booked at least a month down the road. He hasn't accepted new patients in years but he's bursting at the seams.

The plus sides though, you can see a doctor however much you want. There are no restrictions or limits. Unfortunately that does create a problem with people seeing a doctor for the smallest problems like colds and flu where there is nothing he can do for you.

The system here have been developing since the 1950's and 60's for 30 million people and it still have tons of bumps. How the US thinks they are going to develop a federal system for 300 million is beyond me. Not to bring politics into is, what Romney was suggestion and what he had done for his state as governor seemed more feesable and doable than what your new government is suggesting. Put it in place of the individual states to decide and let them run it. Have conditions and standard the individual states need to follow to obtain any federal money. Clearly there has to be a hybrid of public and private coverage.

The Canadian system is slowly moving to that system as more minor procedures are started to be covered privately.
 

Esox

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Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2008
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I hope a hybrid system system is developed. My family has a health savings account that to this point works fine for us. We have only me and my Wife as employees. Leave me alone to run my business and handle my own health insurance. If I must pitch in, I of course will, but please take into account my hard work and willingness to take care of my myself and mine. Don't lump me in with the ultra-rich and the corporations when I have a couple good years, or eventually I'll say the hell with it and become a drag on the system, too.

Your comments are very interesting, and I appreciate their honesty. Not only have you been up to your neck in the system from a health standpoint, but you're also able to give a doctor's perspective.

Kevin
 

King Par

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Apr 15, 2007
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I've had 7 surgeries and a few other little run ins with it. As far as I am concerned, from a patients point of view, the only problem was the wait, like was said. I got in for a CT scan, little over a week, which wasn't bad. But my surgeries were always 5-6 months in advance. Everything else is good though, isn't as expensive, etc. My brother's broken his leg and his arm before and the only money we paid was for trips to the city to visit him.
 

VtDivot

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Apr 16, 2005
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I Lived in Canada for my first 25 years, had very little need for medical assistance but had and have plenty of relatives on the waitlist... my grandmother is waiting for surgery on her neck... she lives with excruciating pain, it's just plain silly. My FIL was travelling in the USA and had some swelling in his leg, we went to a clinic in Largo FL, they did an MRI and a scope and they discovered staph infection, hard to say what would have happened had he been in NS.

No brainer for me, the system here IF you have good insurance is far superior.
 
OP
warbirdlover

warbirdlover

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This is from my wife. She got the chemo and radiation treatment quickly but the costs left over from the insurance have us strapped. I don't think there are many good insurance companies anymore....

Cancer treatments here with typical insurance:
One month between diagnosis and start of treatments.
$3300.00 out of pocket expenses AFTER insurance pays their portion, which the hospital/clinic wants paid off in a year. If you can't afford this you don't get to have any follow up procedures done.
No money, no treatments.
You can probably go to a different hospital system further away and get treated, but then you owe two hospitals.

Patti
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
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The problem I have with privatized medicine is this: is it right that because you make more money than I you can get a better doctor, and therefore a better chance at life (assuming a life-threatening illness)?

Healthcare is not, and cannot be a "right" because it is a service that is provided by human beings, just like auto detailing or plumbing. That it concerns, directly, health and human life cannot alter the fact that being in a medical profession is still a profession.

And likewise, you pay more for better electricians, or better plumbers. You pay more for better meat. You always pay more for something BETTER. Why do you find this offensive in the healthcare system?

If a guy is determined enough to become the best doctor in his field, he ought to be able to charge whatever he wants. He's the best. Telling him what he can charge is a mild form of slavery. If he's charging too much, people won't pay it. It's that simple.

Gotta take things into your own hands that way. Work more, or find a better job that offers more advanced healthcare benefits if you're really so concerned about it. No one is asking the government to socialize plumbing (though it's probably not far off at this point.)

I did a rather extensive report on the Canadian system, and it seems that the waits are quite severe, but are only applicable to actual dangers to one's health. There's not really a significant wait to see a doctor about some minor illness. But if you have something serious going on, you're in trouble.

One article I read detailed an automated letter sent to people waiting for a heart specialst, that concluded with something like this:

"If the recipient of this letter has passed away, please accept our sincere apologies."
 

LyleG

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Aug 10, 2006
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The wait time here are so badly exaggerated its not even funny. My Mother has had 3 major surgeries and the wait times were never more than 45 days and these were not life threatening procedures.

Mu uncle had a heart attack on Dec 5th of this past year and had a triple bypass the following day.

Both of my wifes parents had knee injuries diagnosed, MRI'd and surgically repaired in less than a 45 day span.

Cost to the patient in all 3 cases was ZERO. To say that this should be a business first and that peoples health is second is ludicrous and is just one of the many reasons the US health care system ranks so low on a global scale.
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
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This is from my wife. She got the chemo and radiation treatment quickly but the costs left over from the insurance have us strapped. I don't think there are many good insurance companies anymore....

The alternative, which would be the case if healthcare wasn't available, is that you die. That you can drop a few thousand dollars and add YEARS to your live is beyond convenient, IMO. I realize it's a tough expense to bare, but a lot of people die on waiting lists.

And, again, if you enslave doctors, people stop spending 10 years to become doctors. Then you have NO healthcare options, and you save your $3,300 with obvious reprocussions.
 

MIKE1218

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Dec 21, 2006
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I thought you might do that Z. I don't think capitalism applies to healthcare, at all. I think human beings have the right to life. Don't you? I would also disagree in that healthcare is a right. The system is in place, but only for those who can afford it. Great for auto detailing, not so much for sick people.

Say we have a lowly daytime cashier at McDonalds. Bad insurance. But that's all she can afford, because the best job she is qualified for is McDonalds. Now say she suddenly needs heart valve repair surgery, or she will most definitely not see out the year. Just let her die? She can't get a better job or afford the surgery? That's a shame.

Just doesn't sit right with me.
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
I thought you might do that Z. I don't think capitalism applies to healthcare, at all. I think human beings have the right to life. Don't you? I would also disagree in that healthcare is a right. The system is in place, but only for those who can afford it. Great for auto detailing, not so much for sick people.

Say we have a lowly daytime cashier at McDonalds. Bad insurance. But that's all she can afford, because the best job she is qualified for is McDonalds. Now say she suddenly needs heart valve repair surgery, or she will most definitely not see out the year. Just let her die? She can't get a better job or afford the surgery? That's a shame.

Just doesn't sit right with me.

Right to life is not a right to healthcare. Right to life details the injustice of someone actively ending your life- i.e., murder, mortal injury, etc. Auto detailing is not for sick people- that's my point. Because it's about sick people, objectivity is thrown out the window. It shouldn't be. People devote a huge part of their lives to becoming health specialists. They deserve the freedom to charge whatever they wish. You think guys who save lives as a daily profession don't DESERVE huge amounts of money? Imagine if they WEREN'T there.

Your story is sad, of course. But why is that the best job she's qualified for? She should be striving to better herself, get educated, get a BETTER job. Otherwise, life happens, and you run out of options real fast.

On a sidenote, I think McD's actually offers pretty good healthcare. If you work 20 hours a week at Wegmans, part-time, you qualify for all-inclusive Excellus BCBS for 10$ a week.

It sucks that people can't take care of themselves and their lives, but it's not my responsibility to pick up the slack.
 

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