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Question for Canucks

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
LMAO, its been working here for at least 50+ years, same for Europe, Japan, Australia, and many other places. But whatever suits your argument Dave.
 

David Hillman

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2008
836
0
And I am perfectly fine with that, as is most of Europe, and many other democratically free countries. So I fail to see your point?

It doesn't scale... as clearly shown by your system, where people have to come to the US for care they cannot get at home. Because you can't tax people enough to pay for a totally-comprehensive healthcare system ( including a huge cut for government ) without killing the country. Already Canada's expenditures are approaching ours.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081113/healthcare_inflation_081113/20081113?hub=Canada said:
"Health-care spending is expected to grow faster than Canada's economy, outpacing inflation and population growth," said Glenda Yeates, president and CEO of the health-information group.

And wait times far exceed ours...

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/5/776-a said:
The Canadian Association of Radiologists (CAR) describes the situation as "almost criminal" and warned that the province could face legal action from patients. "Denial of care is a violation of the Canada Health Act," said chief executive Dr. Normand Laberge. "To use an expression, they are getting away with murder."
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
It doesn't scale... as clearly shown by your system, where people have to come to the US for care they cannot get at home. Because you can't tax people enough to pay for a totally-comprehensive healthcare system ( including a huge cut for government ) without killing the country. Already Canada's expenditures are approaching ours.



And wait times far exceed ours...

The numbers you are talking about are very small. The people crossing are doing so because they want to no because they need to. If you need a knee replacement you will get one here. It may take 4 months but you will get it and will not cost you a penny out of pocket. If you dont feel like waiting you can go elsewhere and pay. Nothing life threatening has wait times. I know this is a long ways off from the epic failings your going on about, buts its the facts. I will bet our system is around in its current form a lot longer than yours is in its current form. BTW Dave, have you ever been to Canada, or Europe? Have you ever seen these systems in person?

And again with the news clippings? You realize news has an agenda to fill. Come here, ask around. Its a far cry from what you'd expect.
 

David Hillman

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2008
836
0
The numbers you are talking about are very small. The people crossing are doing so because they want to no because they need to.

But I thought you were the champion of leaving no one behind? And, I don't think a cerebral hemorage really qualifies as a cosmetic issue, so you?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080119.neuro191/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home said:
More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here.

Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care.

Why don't those 150 people deserve your compassion? Because they are a 'very small' number? That's awfully cold-hearted, Lyle.

If you need a knee replacement you will get one here. It may take 4 months but you will get it and will not cost you a penny out of pocket. If you dont feel like waiting you can go elsewhere and pay. Nothing life threatening has wait times. I know this is a long ways off from the epic failings your going on about, buts its the facts. I will bet our system is around in its current form a lot longer than yours is in its current form. BTW Dave, have you ever been to Canada, or Europe? Have you ever seen these systems in person?

Been to both, but never lived there, so haven't used their healthcare systems. For that matter, I never use the US system either.

And again with the news clippings? You realize news has an agenda to fill. Come here, ask around. Its a far cry from what you'd expect.

Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your head-in-sanding. I'll try to follow your lead, and refrain from posting anything other than unsubstantiated opinions.

I would like to note, though, that a couple Canadians posters in this thread have commented on the wait time issue. So it would not appear that there is some vast media conspiracy aligned against Canadian healthcare.
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
You're the selfish one here, Lyle. I'm FAR from rich, and my upbringing has been more of a "learn what not to do" situation. But you know what? Life is what it is, and you sink or swim. Awful things happen to people every day. Obviously METH is not a solution.

YOU'RE the one preaching about how you're getting everything for FREE FREE FREE! I'm backing a system I have to pay for. Who's selfish, there? Really?

Lucky you to have a family that has taken a bigger chunk out of the system than you've put into it. If everyone was like you, your country would be bankrupt.

And if you had actually READ my posts instead of staring at your eyelids and preaching your illogical nonsense, you'd see that I DO want people to have access, but I'm not willing to compromise the right to property to fund such a thing.

A private organization that was funded by VOLUNTARY charity would be AVIDLY supported by myself. I know people have it rough, and I know not everyone is as capable of dealing with their situations as I am. I don't want to forsake people, but I'm not willing to compromise rights.

There IS a selfish, greedy ******* between the two of us, and only one of us is standing here with his hands out.

Frankly, I'm sure there are enough people who have a hard life to where you should be giving ALL your money to other people. How can you justify spending money on golf, or ANYTHING excess of what you need to survive when there are people who are doing without? Hypocrite, much?
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
YOU'RE the one preaching about how you're getting everything for FREE FREE FREE! I'm backing a system I have to pay for. Who's selfish, there? Really?


I honestly thought you were smarter than this. I pay roughly 50% of my income to tax, and have no problem with that. I also dont think I used the word free. I said no one is out of pocket, as income does not dictate care.
So it was a nice try on your part to try and twist thing but it didnt work. I know what you said, and i know what you meant. I am thankful as hell I am not a selfish bitter prick like you who rather see someone be denied healthcare before chipping in to pay for it. Have a nice life, I am done with you.
 

N.V.M.

now...a cartoon
Sep 27, 2008
1,972
2
It's been my experience that Internet discussions involving US and Canadian health care systems always end up being donnybrooks, and in most cases locked by moderators.

It appears this one is heading in the same direction.

Kevin

cough.....
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
Grow up, Lyle. You're a hypocrite. You've avoided 90% of the points I've made. You belong in Canada, where you don't have to take care of yourself. You'd fail miserably in the world otherwise.
 

VtDivot

SLIGHTERED
Supporting Member
Apr 16, 2005
7,154
32
Anyone out there besides me actually live with the two systems? I see plenty of emotion from both sides, very low on the factoids tho.

I think it's a no win argument to be honest, both have advantages and disadvantages. it depends on what you value. For me, the cost is irrellevant when it comes to the quality of the care. If I was struggling or homeless, I might think otherwise.

A lot of my family in NS couldn't comprehend why I pay into this system either, until one of them got sick and down here and compared the care they received to what they would have gotten back in Cape Breton. Whether or not they prefer to fork out the $$$ for it is another matter

I think we need to cool it here.
 

JEFF4i

She lives!
Supporting Member
Jul 3, 2006
13,545
95
Hmmmm.....
sillycat22.jpg
 

Wi-Golfer

Golfer on hiatus.
Supporting Member
Jul 25, 2007
8,147
1,474
Madison, Wi
Country
United States United States
We need to set up a virtual octagon, 2 men enter, 1 man leaves. Lyle vs Sux:hunter:
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
Well, I'm about individual responsibility, he's about social responsibility. So really it'd be a 2 v 0 fight. Both myself and Lyle would be on my side, according to his "logic." I win by default.
 

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