Question for Canucks

[millrivermem]

In one of those links I posted, it talks about the wait for an MRI in a Canadian province that approaches two years,

What is strange about that "fact" is that my sister needed an MRI for something to do with her back.Neither was it life threatening or so painful she couldnt handle it. We do not even have an MRI machine on P.E.I. and she only had a 3 month wait.

I have no idea what provinces your statistics are from, but I know first hand that they are certainly exagerated.

 

[LyleG]

Canada is already using a hybrid of the 'Canadian system'. Due to their shortage of facilities and professionals ( 1 in 9 Canadian-educated doctors work in the US, and Canada still has 25% fewer per capita than the average developed nation ) they have to rely on the private US system for handle their overflow. Luckily for Canada, the US is conveniently located for most of their population. In one of those links I posted, it talks about the wait for an MRI in a Canadian province that approaches two years, because there are only 3 machines in the entire province. Two of the VETS where I take my dogs have MRI machines! There have be dozens, if not hundreds, in Illinois alone. And, as previously posted, Canadians are paying almost as much for their system now... so where's all the cash going? It's being wasted, which is the only thing governments are efficient at.

Wrt to COBRA, I can get the same policy for about 1/4 the money going outside COBRA, versus in it. That's why government healthcare is ruinous. Maybe if we could fix our entire government, and refocus it on something other than spending money, it'd have a chance. Until that revolution happens, though, no way.

The nonsense you post is so outdated its not even funny. I live in a town of 85,000 people and we have 2 MRI machines alone. But feel free to believe what you want.

 

[VtDivot]

The nonsense you post is so outdated its not even funny. I live in a town of 85,000 people and we have 2 MRI machines alone. But feel free to believe what you want.

I think he's talking about NS or PEI.

 

[David Hillman]

Geez guys, it's not that hard to read the already-posted links. It was Saskatchewan, and that was in 2004. Unless you agree with Lyle that nothing found on the internet is to be trusted, except his word... in which case, why are you reading this thread?

Lyle, you can skip the remainder of this post for obvious reasons.

Saskatchewan's 22-month wait for an MRI is "almost criminal" says radiologists' association

Has it gotten better, then?

A typical Canadian seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment had to wait 18.3 weeks in 2007, an all-time high, according to new research published Monday by independent research organization the Fraser Institute.
"It's becoming clearer that Canada's current health-care system cannot meet the needs of Canadians in a timely and efficient manner, unless you consider access to a waiting list timely and efficient," Esmail added.

Abstract:
Excessive wait times for magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) studies are a major problem in the Canadian healthcare system. To determine how requests for MRI studies are managed, the authors performed a survey of public MRI facilities in Canada.

( dated 2009 )

As the U.S. enters its first serious debate on healthcare reform in more than a decade, comparisons with other developed nations inevitably crop up. Though generally praised for its overall access, the healthcare system of our neighbor to the north is hardly flawless. Canada lags behind other countries in the number of diagnostic imaging devices, and its MR imaging facilities deal with long wait lists, said senior investigator Dr. Tom Feasby, dean of medicine at the University of Calgary.

Boy, good thing the internet is full of nothing but lies and disinformation, otherwise people might think Canada is something other than healthcare paradise.

 

[millrivermem]

Health care paradise no.If so we would be number 1 on the world health organizations list.As it is we are 30. U.S is 70-something. Our system does work and you can't really argue that untill you live here.

 

[Rockford35]

Boy, good thing the internet is full of nothing but lies and disinformation, otherwise people might think Canada is something other than healthcare paradise.

While I'm not picking sides, I will poke holes in your theory.

While Saskatchewan may have a long waiting list for MRI, I have not experienced this within recent memory. In late February of this year, my 89 year old grandfather had an MRI on his head done to reveal a large tumour behind his eye that had caused the eye to go 100% blind and irreversable with surgery. He waited less than a week for that MRI. Being that he wasn't in immediate danger or impending death (Urgency 1, at best), and 89 years old for that matter, he was still less than 7 days for the procedure.

Following the discovery of the tumour, he underwent successful surgery to remove the tumour on the 16th of March. That's less than 3 weeks since his diagnosis.

I would have to say that these time frames are somewhat normal, even for a province that has the highest numbers of 65+ residents per capita.

Also, Canada may be lacking in MRI machines, we do more MRI scans per capita than any European country or the US - by far. So, even with the shortcomings, we still get it done well within expected timeframes.

What you are hearing are the extremes. Groups ringing the bell about "lacking" and "long waits" are just tooting their own horns. It's hard to make demands for new union contracts without support from the community when you are a government funded agency, no?

I have alot -ALOT- of respect for the healthcare workers in this province and this country. They put up with alot of shit that I wouldn't want to deal with personally. And alot of this is the abuse that I spoke on on page one of this fiasco.

Personally, I am happy with the service that I've had with the healthcare system, but I do believe that the abuse of it needs to stop. Smoking, refusal to abide by medication recommendations or the dreaded "hypochondriac" are what put huge strains on the services and dollars per capita. Even things like new IT ventures have increased spending by nearly 1.5%, not to mention increasing costs for supplies (plastics are made from petrochemicals) put more and more dollars out the door and less for beds and nurses.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm pointing fingers, nor am I defending anything. I've said in the past that I would pay to get priority service, but that's only because I can afford it. If I couldn't, I'd be happier than a pig in shit with what we have. Period.

R35

 

[Rockford35]

Health care paradise no.If so we would be number 1 on the world health organizations list.As it is we are 30. U.S is 70-something. Our system does work and you can't really argue that untill you live here.

Bingo.

R35

 

[VtDivot]

Also, Canada may be lacking in MRI machines, we do more MRI scans per capita than any European country or the US - by far.

R35

ahem - source please

I don't doubt you, it's just that most people in my hometown can't spell MRI so this littl bit of trivia intrigues me

 

[David Hillman]

While I'm not picking sides, I will poke holes in your theory.

I appreciate the reasoned response. At least one of your countrymen would do well to follow your lead...

What you are hearing are the extremes. Groups ringing the bell about "lacking" and "long waits" are just tooting their own horns. It's hard to make demands for new union contracts without support from the community when you are a government funded agency, no?

With all due respect, anecdotal evidence is a very poor tool for analysis. Every source I read on Canadian healthcare repeats the same mantra, among others. Everything varies widely by province, and even within provinces. In the particular case of MRIs, there is no effective triage being done; so one non-urgent case may get in in a week, but another urgent case may wait four.

Given that, we really have to roll up data well beyond the anecdotal level to see what's going on. The graphs above are from a couple of Canadian healthcare agencies. I suppose they could be lying to y'all, but in that case, do you really trust them with knives and your body, or more importantly, to honestly diagnose your illnesses?

Please look at the graph with the two blue lines. In Alberta, the goal is 100% of urgent MRIs in 1 week. To date, they have not accomplished 90% complete in 1 MONTH.

I have alot -ALOT- of respect for the healthcare workers in this province and this country. They put up with alot of shit that I wouldn't want to deal with personally. And alot of this is the abuse that I spoke on on page one of this fiasco.

But you just effectively called them liars.

I'm pointing fingers, nor am I defending anything. I've said in the past that I would pay to get priority service, but that's only because I can afford it. If I couldn't, I'd be happier than a pig in shit with what we have. Period.

R35

I guess I am pointing fingers, but I don't mean it in a bad way. I was just somewhat amazed by the claims surrounding the Canadian system, and I have a genetic inability to let bullshit stand. I also correct people when they call a highway a "freeway"

TANSTAAFL.

 

[Rockford35]

ahem - source please

I don't doubt you, it's just that most people in my hometown can't spell MRI so this littl bit of trivia intrigues me

Saskatchewan Regional Health Division Annual Report 2008.


We have significantly less machines per capita (I think it's 5.6 for Canada, 19.5 in the US and something like 34.6 in Japan - yikes) but we must burn the midnight oil punching people through those machines.

R35

 

[SilverUberXeno]

TANSTAAFL.

I agree, and really appreciate your input on this topic altogether.

But Lyle didn't fill his diaper because of you, so I'm still the king

 

[Rockford35]

With all due respect, anecdotal evidence is a very poor tool for analysis. Every source I read on Canadian healthcare repeats the same mantra, among others. Everything varies widely by province, and even within provinces. In the particular case of MRIs, there is no effective triage being done; so one non-urgent case may get in in a week, but another urgent case may wait four.

Given that, we really have to roll up data well beyond the anecdotal level to see what's going on. The graphs above are from a couple of Canadian healthcare agencies. I suppose they could be lying to y'all, but in that case, do you really trust them with knives and your body, or more importantly, to honestly diagnose your illnesses?

Fair enough.

However, many of the quotes and stories you have cited are by "independent health care agencies".

How do you have independent healthcare agencies that don't have agendas when the heathcare system is nationalized?:deadhorse:

These aren't the same people with the scalpels. They're the ones with the drug and machinery dollars in their backyards.

From my personal experiences - as early as one month ago - and without citing the internet bang, the system is fine. If they were sucking the hind tit, I'd be first in line raging against the machine, but I have no reason to - none.

R35

 

[millrivermem]

Saskatchewan Regional Health Division Annual Report 2008.


We have significantly less machines per capita (I think it's 5.6 for Canada, 19.5 in the US and something like 34.6 in Japan - yikes) but we must burn the midnight oil punching people through those machines.

R35

Your right there with shortages of MRI machines..P.E.I. population=130,000, MRI machines= 0...As of a few years ago anyways...im not sure if we have gotten one since.We did build A bunker at the hospital in Charlottetown for something to do with radiation.That could of been a cancer related machine though.

 

[David Hillman]

Your right there with shortages of MRI machines..P.E.I. population=130,000, MRI machines= 0...As of a few years ago anyways...im not sure if we have gotten one since.We did build A bunker at the hospital in Charlottetown for something to do with radiation.That could of been a cancer related machine though.

The two are not necessarily distinct. My dog just had surgery to remove a tumor, and the imaging used to diagnose was from an MRI. A subsequent CT scan was used to direct the surgery. Luckily he didn't have to wait four weeks for that scan, though, otherwise we'd have had to put him down.

( But I'm not anti-Canadian, both my dogs are Labradors )

 

[JEFF4i]

I wonder about Japan, they're too quiet.

I mean they are already developing robot teachers, a well-acclaimed healtchare system, bullet trains that are going super fast now, and doing lots of other crap...hmmm...