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slow play/jumping ahead, was I wrong

Discussion in 'General Golf Talk' started by JamesR, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. JamesR

    JamesR Interlocking Now

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    (A little intro to me, 5'4" shrimpy, hot headded, and never knows when to shut up)

    So me and two of my buddies from school decided to play a round of golf today. Anyways, we get there and it is the normal sunday crowd. We were the 1:45 group behind the 1:37 group, and they were behind the 1:31 group.

    We waited in line after putting and chipping at the practice green to watch the 1:31 group tee off, two decent golfers (what I could tell looked like after how they played the first hole) teed off and played fast. Now the 1:37 tees off,(Four crappy golfers that appeared to be in their late 20s early 30s dressed in cut-off shorts and T-shirts from burger joints, etc.) and after each golfer in the group hit 2 or 3 crappy drives, they were off, or so we thought. after waiting 10 minutes to tee off, and another 20 waiting to wait for them to clear the green, We politley asked them if they would let us play through as the two golfers in front of them were already on the third green. Their exact response was "No, you whiny ass juniors dont own the course." Ok we figured that that was a definate no, and we would try to jump infront of them at the turn.

    On the 4th hole, a short dogleg left, I hit my hybrid as soon as they went around the corner, I hit the ball down the left side of the fairway, with a clean shot to the green. All of a sudden one of them drives the cart back to my ball, tees it up, and hit the ball back at us with his driver. Whatever, I hit another ball after waiting another minute.

    So after a THREE HOUR front nine, we ran to the tenth teebox hoping that they stopped in the clubhouse, Great, they had one guy guarding the 10th teebox refusing to let us pass, and to top it off, a group playing the back nine only was infront of them, and they were really slow. and the group in front of us was playing slow on purpose now.

    We pressed them, as soon as they were 10 yards out of our range, we hit, as soon as the last golfer stepped off the green, we hit our approaches.

    Heres where the problem was

    And on the 14th hole they just sat in their carts, the slow group infront of them were on the green at a 350 yard par 4. And when the group infront of them was off the green they didnt even budge, no eye contact, nothing. So I told my two buddies to tee off at the same time, so we could tee off quick and run infront of them. we waited 5 minutes,and then teed off all at once. and then walked fast to our shots, but we had to pass them. and we got confrontational, They said "Did we say you could go" "and then I unloaded on them with any golf related insult that I could think of.

    We walked to our balls and it was smooth sailing untill #16, where we were waiting on the group infront of us. And they were heckeling us when we were teeing off. words were exchanged, and three high schoolers were told to be waiting in the parking lot for an ass kicking.

    On the 16th green we see the ranger coming aaround the corner. We explained what happened. And the ranger told us never to do anything like that, "and gave us the they pay money to golf here schpeel." The ranger was pissed off at US.

    And when the ranger went to talk to them, they were promptly kicked out because the ranger found a lot of empty beer cans in one of their cart. They were drunk, and brought their own beer to the course.

    we spoke to a few other golfers in the clubhouse, and they said that they wouldve done the same.

    Were we wrong to skip ahead of them like that, the ranger disagrees with us, but lots more people agree. Was I worng?
     
  2. Eracer

    Eracer No more triple bogies!!

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    First off, the group ahead of you was obviously not inclined to be polite, or even reasonable. It was obvious early on that they were nothing but trouble. You had 18 holes to either leave them be, call the "cops" (ranger), or confront them yourself.

    I know the natural inclination is to fight, and I would have been pretty pissed off at their behavior. But the reality is that you should have called the clubhouse as soon as they drove back to your ball and hit it at you. They were obviously looking for a fight, and you played their game. They weren't really there to golf, and you were. So by confronting them, you gave them what they wanted, and threw away your day.

    I've learned over the years that confronting people on the course is a "no win" situation. Some people make mistakes. You let it go - the first time. Then you politely ask them not to do it again. 99% of the time, you'll have no further problems. But if they continue, and especially if they threaten you in any way, you immediately get the course authorities involved. When you do, you make it plain that you feel threatened. You insist that someone come out there immediately and monitor the problem group.

    Trying to jump ahead of them threatened their dominance over you, which is the only game they were playing at that point. Your only recourse (unless you wanted to get into a physical fight) was to get a greater authority involved.
     
  3. Irish

    Irish Well-Known Member

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    its pretty simple...call the clubhouse report them for slow play and the ranger should make them let you guys play through...driving the ball up their asses as it appears you guys where doing the whole time... is a stupid thing to do and can only lead to trouble...

    they should have let you through but you guys didn't help the situation...
     
  4. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, it said a lot to me about the pace of play when you went ahead of them and still had to wait.

    Playing through will only - truly - be of help to you if there are 2-3 holes open ahead of the group in front of you. I know the Rules of Golf say ' one open hole ahead'....but if they had indeed let you play through...it appears from your post you would have caught up to the group in front of them fairly quickly.

    The other responses to your post are right on the money...take your cell phone with you and call the clubhouse to get the Ranger out there. That's why he has a job - to police these situations.

    And if you - skip ahead a hole - how can you determine what your score was? You have no way of knowing your final score if you only played 17 holes....
     
  5. Pa Jayhawk

    Pa Jayhawk Well-Known Member

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    It seems as though they just wanted to obnoxious, so it is probably better to let the clubhouse deal with them, as they eventually did.

    Although in normal circumstances, had they not been inclined to be a bunch of dicks, I don't see a problem with them not letting you play through. As it would appear based on what you mention they were not to far behind the group in front by 14, and would likely be waiting on you if they let you play through.

    Personally I play pretty quick, although I am yet to ever ask a group if I can play through. If one asked me I would likely be annoyed simply because I would likely let them play through at the first chance where I felt appropriate, and probably in a hole or two. If the group in front is very slow and I am sure they are a couple holes behind and it is apparent they will likely never catch the group in front of them, we would simply skip a hole when we see fit and they would never see us again, just makes for a more peaceful day all around.

    Not condoning anything the people in front of you did, as they do not belong on the golf course. Although I will simply say as a matter of the situation, I could likely see that in their feeble mind they may have been set off by you asking after only one hole. Again, I can simply see where this may set someone off. Just in the sense that if I started off a round that horribly, I think someone telling me to pick it up or get out of the way may likely piss me off to a small degree. Not that you said it that way, but there are not many other ways to look at it on a golf course. By asking, it is going to come down to either they have no clue, or you not trusting their ability to make a judgment on course etiquette. I don't see any good coming from either and the reason I have never asked if I could play through. Although there have been times where I have intentionally picked up my pace to send a message, at which point when they see me patiently waiting at the teebox when they are still teeing off, usually it results in the offer, otherwise I would simply skip that hole without a word and they would never see me again anyways. They had a guy a few years back trying to qualify for the PGA. Doing fairly well up until taking like a 7 or more on a par 3 and likely killing any chance of Qualifying, an official told him to pick up the pace. He went after the official. Just a matter of a bad hole can make tension already at it height. Probably not a good time to compound the situation.

    I guess I am simply saying that it may be wise to take more than one hole to ask a question like that, or at least out of respect give them the opportunity to offer to let you play through, as you may find someone who is already very close to the edge because of a lousy hole.

    After all, if after 14 holes they were still not a full hole behind the next group, I would say your initial judgment of them was wrong. They would have been waiting on you all day. Not that it excuses their behavior.

    edit 1 - Also, as it appears the rangers had no problem with enforcing the code by throwing them off the course, it is more apparent that would be your proper recourse as they are a better judge of the overall pace of play on the course. I can see how they were pissed at you, as again, you were kinda questioning their judgment as well. I could likely see in this situation that you were fortunate to not be thrown off as well if you never even mentioned it to them in 14 holes to get a little insight, then taking it into your own hands.
     
  6. clemsonhacker

    clemsonhacker uncle sam's slave

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    that sucks....but thats golf....we always let people through...but we have an advantage ...if there are alot of people teeing off or a few groups just teed off. the ranger lets us go to like 5 or six and start and work our way back around...we pretty much rule our course...
     
  7. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    What you didn't list is that you're 16 years old. All of us have been there, and the lucky ones lived through the teenage years.

    IMHO, there are a lot more important things to worry about than slow golfers.

    Also IMHO, I will get more pissed off about someone hitting into me repeatedly than I will about slow golfers in front of me.

    Thirdly, golf is not a race. You get no points for a fast round. I like to play fast, but if the backed up course demands that I play slow, then I can do that too.

    Fourthly, cart golf sucks, and seem to bring out the worst behavior in some people. Maybe it's knowing they can jump in their cart and drive away. :) Walking makes you behave better: you're too tired to fight.

    Fifthly, beer should be banned on golf courses.
     
  8. Pa Jayhawk

    Pa Jayhawk Well-Known Member

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    Now, Now.

    Let's separate use from abuse. Should we also ban power bars, soda, and golf balls on the course because people are to damn lazy and inconsiderate to throw away their own garbage? To me it seems more logical to hold the individual responsible for their own behavior. In the same sense, I wouldn't want the course to make everyone wait for all people to be on the greens on every par 4 and 5, or off the green for every approach shot, simply because a few people are clueless or are lousy judges of their ability and distance.

    Let's not ruin it for the entire group simply because a few can't seem to drink and be respectful at the same time. There are many who are, and as one I am just as likely to be pissed off at the uncontrollable drunk that can't hold his water.

    Kinda seems like banning popcorn from movies, fireworks from the 4th of July, or insert your favorite example, simply because some people have no self control.
     
  9. Dave Ireland

    Dave Ireland I'm sizzlin tonite

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    Here here !! ..... tho I would ban cans of beer, anything under 5% volume and everything by Budweiser :D
     
  10. twofast2s

    twofast2s Well-Known Member

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    well a guy from my church and i were playing on a slow day, when on my approach shot i here a ball dropping near by. i didn't bother to look and shot my approach around the green. another thud as i was walking toward the green.

    i looked back, and i could see a threesome had tee off while they could clearly see me and cutting it very close to hitting me.

    i get on the green, putt out and as my partner and i walk out to green i almost got hit by a ball. the next hole was par three so i put my stuff down by the tee box, and the group in front of us just had teed off, so grabbed my 7i and and walked down to the green i previously came out of.

    i told them in straight face and told them to be mindful of others and not hit into us because there were group in front of us. of course they were drunk and they were talking crap which i couldn't hear, but i gave them the look. they never confronted me again, but i was pissed rest of the round. but oh boy, did i wanted them to hit into us one more time. i was imagining that i was snapping my driver in half and and use the sharp edge to stab their eyes and throat, and bash their head into the green w/ my putter.

    they were warned already not allowing enough time for people to finish in front them. and i found out about it b/c the ranger asked me if they gave us any problem. hopefully they band those guys from the course.

    but just my rant and i feel like some people shouldn't be on the course when it's so busy. or at least know the etiquettes of golf b/f playing.
     
  11. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    Popcorn and fireworks cause people to lose control, become abusive, and get into fights?

    People get arrested for driving under the influence of popcorn? :)

    The Betty Ford Clinic is for popcorn abusers? :D

    Some people lose their self control when drinking. IMHO, it's best to separate drinking from activities where they have the potential to hurt innocent bystanders.
     
  12. Pa Jayhawk

    Pa Jayhawk Well-Known Member

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    Actually popcorn is uncontrollably thrown by most kids at movies, if used properly fireworks are very safe but not in the hands of the wrong person.

    Again, you are assuming it is the alcohol and not the persons character that causes the neglect. I drink most rounds and have never been abusive unless provoked, in a fight or lose control as a result. Actually for me I am less likely because it eliminates alot of the tension that may otherwise lead to a bad situation. You give me a beer on a 30 minute wait every hole, and I will still enjoy the day. You take that away and I could see either leaving the course or getting abusive more easily.

    I actually have likely seen far more people lose their self control on a course while not drinking than while drinking.

    You ever give any thought to what your greens fees would cost on courses that likely generate a large part of revenue from alcohol.

    To me this is the same as firearms debates. It is an inanimate object, you need to evaluate the persons character and the the character of what occurs when put in the wrong hands. People who lose total self control when they drink should not drink, it doesn't matter if they are in a bar, a golf course, a church or behind the wheel of a car.

    You are trying to give them an excuse for their character flaws, and at the same time take away the freedoms for those who do not lack that self control.

    Again, gorging yourself on Hotdogs at the half way house, drinking soda, gambling, smoking, serves no purpose on the course but enjoyment. So as long as you can do so in a fashionable manner and in a way that doesn't bother me, what would that make me by trying to take that freedom away from you for no reason?
     
  13. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    I'm not willing to get in a major argument today, so I'll quit. :)

    But I will say that if I'm playing golf and my playing partners are getting drunk, as opposed to having 1 beer per 9 holes, I'll find an excuse to leave.
     
  14. warbirdlover

    warbirdlover Ender of all threads Supporting Member

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    No rangers to complain too? That's the proper way to do it. If no rangers don't play that course again. :D
     
  15. zenkar

    zenkar Well-Known Member

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    I played with 3 guys yesterday... They were drinking beer and having a good time and shooting decent rounds too... Now I dont mean that they were getting hammered... 16th hole comes and one guy asks If i want a cocktail? I say sure thinking he was joking.. few seconds later a bottle of smirnoff comes out the bag along with a bottle of orange juice!!! we all had a great time and that was the best group of guys I have played with..
     
  16. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    I have hesitated to write this post for a long time because it can come off snobbish...and that's not me.

    I guess I am lucky as hell to be a member of a nice private club...it's as expensive as shit but these are things I don't have to put up with....

    1) Any round of golf more than 4.5 hours long. We were packed on Saturday morning and had tons of people walking (pull carts not allowed, you must CARRY your bag on your back)...got hung up on one long par 3 and it still took us only 4:15 to play. 98% of the members are very conscious of pace...the old ladies are among the fastest players at the club and will leave your ass behind in a nanosecond. Our average playing time on Sunday morning is 3:45.

    Next, our membership is getting younger and younger...many of our old members are just literally dying and these older ones are the slow ones. These young members walk/carry and play fast. I'm a 52 yo geezer in my cart.

    2) Those who drink alcohol on the course are very, very, few. There's one guy in my group (of ten) that drinks and he is the only one. In the summer, it is so hot that most adults now realize that alcohol will dry out your system.

    Our course has two bathrooms on it with covered front porches. From April through November, we have ice/water machines where you can fill up your cups on an unlimited basis. We also have two electric water fountains on other holes on each side.

    As a result, we have about 400 golfers who drinks loads and loads of........water. I rarely see a beer can in a trash can...I can honestly say, I haven't seen a truly inebriated player in the last 10 years.

    3) Although everyone at the club is not exactly pals (by a Long Stretch) courteous play is the norm. If you have a personal issue or dislike of another member, and there is PLENTY of this...you don't manifest this on the golf course. Take it somewhere else. You are expected to play at a good pace and to clear hitting areas very promptly.

    Last, the course is in good shape. We are in the worst drought in 100 years and it still looks pretty damn good. Greens are super and some of the fairways and rough have dry spots but it's still in really good condition.

    When it gets down to it, I guess it's the money that makes pretty good people members...it now costs $32,750 to join and $360 per month to walk on the property. For that kind of money, I guess you get pretty good people to join...when I joined back in 1986 - it cost me $5000.
     
  17. SiberianDVM

    SiberianDVM I love Hooters Moderator

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    Yowzaa!!!! For that kind of money, I'll put up with a few drunks. :D

    Bravo, why the ban on push/pull carts? I refuse to play course that allow walking but ban carts.
     
  18. cabinessence

    cabinessence Never Say Die

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    Beer golf can be really fun :) 4-footers are a lot easier after three drinks -- obviously there are diminishing returns though.
     
  19. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know....they put that rule in years ago. I think it was to discourage walking so they could maximize cart revenue.

    Our club is now 58 years old and believe it or not, we still have some charter members and members who joined in the 1950's...of course they are well into their 80's now. They are dying at a rate of about 40 per year...as a result, we have room for younger members and are attracting them. What we have found is that they like to walk....while it only saves $14 per round (cost of the cart), they are health conscious and walk.

    About three years ago, when this trend of 1) dying old members 2) lots of younger, walking members - started, there were rumors that the Golf Committee was going to charge a $5 'walking fee' to encourage players to take a cart. This was met with a near-riot from the 'walkers', who came to a Golf Committee meeting with lit torches and slingshots...well you can figure the rest of the story. They don't charge to walk, but (just to be bureaucratic about it!) they still make you carry your own bag.

    The weird thing about it is - the 'walkers' don't complain! Half of them have Sunday bags now...so there's no movement toward pullcarts/buggies...

    The lost revenue will be made up with increased dues....that's the way everything is settled....rising health insurance for employees, rising cost of their retirement plans....rising cost of fuel....dues cover it all.

    It's a good place to work. We have 16 employees who have worked there over 40 years and 20 more who have worked there over 30 years. We match their 401K contributions 50 cents on the dollar and they get Blue Cross medical insurance. As a result, you get good longterm employees. I've known the shoeshine man since I was 10 years old....46 years....

    Humorously, our biggest turnover occured 10 years ago when we started drug testing...Lost about 15 employees I had known since childhood.

    They now work at other clubs in town and I say hello to them when I see them....
     
  20. cabinessence

    cabinessence Never Say Die

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    Drug testing for a golf course? That's pretty lame.


    At my dad's club pull carts aren't allowed -- if you want to walk and not carry your bag, you get a caddy.
     

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