The best thing I have read regarding the new V-Groove Rule.

Also keep in mind that Ping has already successfully sued the USGA in the past. This may not stand.

The best way to show the USGA your displeasure with the V-Groove Rule is to not renew your USGA membership. E-mail them and let them know it too. Here is the email address to start with.

membership@usga.org

1) Just how are amateurs being harmed? Amateurs have 14 years to phase out their old wedges and short irons. Since most serious golfers will have replaced their irons more than once during that period, Solheim's first point is easily refuted.

2) Purely his opinion. This is not the first time that club designs were disapproved after data showed that it was not in the best interests of the game to allow their use.

3) While Tour driving accuracy may still be rewarded, driving inaccuracy is also rewarded because driving in the typical rough is not penalized in any real way.

This statement is a bald faced lie. Prior to the advent of square grooves on Tour, driving accuracy was linked directly to lower scores. That is not nearly the case any more.

4) This too makes no sense to me. I've been watching PGA Tour golf since the mid 70's, and the rough now is typically much deeper than it used to be, yet it is less of a factor in determining how they play a shot. For anything from about a 7 iron down, the pros can stop the ball as well out of the rough as they can from the fairway, and flyers are as rare as dodo birds. Granted that the greens are faster now, but that is also something that could be rolled back somewhat when the new groove change goes into effect. The problem with growing the rough deeper is that then lack of spin is meaningless for amateur golfer. If all you can do is hack the ball a few yards out to the fairway, spin is irrelevant. The groove change would allow courses to cut the rough to a playable depth and still make it more difficult to precisely control distance placing a premium on hitting the fairway. Such conditions would apply equally to amateurs and pros.

5)

Note that he says "could" be the cause, meaning that even in his biased view the evidence is inconclusive. Inconclusive evidence is evidence of nothing.

6) Since virtually every club manufactured in the last 20+ years has had some form of square grooves, this amounts to nothing more than another irrelevancy.

7) By the time the 14 year grandfathering period has expired, there will be millions of used clubs available which do have the new grooves. Anyone playing or buying a set older than 14 years is unlikely to be the sort of player for whom it will matter whether his clubs conform anyway.


All I see here is Ping whining because they can't figure out a way to win the fight this time. They have been riding their high horse for 20 years.... and it just bucked them off.

I'm not being funny but this all stinks like a way to get scoring back towards Par whilst making millions in new clubs sales. Yes, we have 14 years but if you change to new clubs in that time your new clubs will have to have conforming grooves. It's a load of BS. Look at last years Open, over Par won the thing. Strong Wind, long rough and deep bunkers where you don't get a perfect flat lie all played there part.

Put me in Charge of setting a course up for a PGA event and the scores would be much nearer Par. I'd make the Bunkers hazards again, deeper and more 'u' shaped so there aren't many flat lies, I'd take every other tooth out of the Rakes to make them a hazard again. I'd put a lip on every Fairway bunker so if you hit into it from the tee you can't reach the green unless you play a 1 in 100 shot, no more 3 woods from fairway bunkers. I'd grow the rough in making the fairway's narrower and up so that even if you see your ball ener it you'll still struggle to find it. I wouldn't need to wind back the rules to make it tougher to score low....but then again doing that wouldn't earn millions of pounds in new club design and sales.

All that said Birdies and Eagles are what creates excitment at an event, so why not just set the limits where they are at now spin wise & groove wise and lets enjoy watching good scores by great players.

Another good read on the subject.

I'm with Ping on this one. I can't think of a good reason for the rule change in the first place. There are so many different ways to make the game harder.

I wonder if the club manufacturers will continue to manufacture square grooved irons and wedges in defiance of the USGA. For example the popular Titleist Spin Milled wedges.

PS. Anybody who thinks this rule won't have an effect on average golfers hasn't got a clue. The only way you can say that is if you defign average golfers as people who absolutely suck at the game. Anybody who can break 100 is probably benefitting from the current grooves and will see their scores go up even more when they switch to V-grooves.

The only used clubs that will retain any value are Ping Eye 2's. As part of the lawsuit back in the 1980's, Ping Eye 2's were exempted from any future groove changes and will remain legal for play.

:smilie_pi

When I bought my irons last year with my stimulus check, I bought Ping i10's with this ruling in mind. Might as well have a set of irons that will last 14 some odd years in the event the rule does become law. When the rule became law, I contacted Ping and confirmed that replacement for lost/stolen clubs would be available beyond 2010 and they said they will continue to manufacture replacements as necesary beyond the 2010 deadline.

:smilie_pi

For what its worth, I disagree with the ruling to force everyone into the more restrictive grooves. If they really wanted to attack an object that is making the game "easier" for the pro's, why not look at the golf ball? While I am not recommending a return to Balata, can't they come of with a maximum distance a ball can travel under defined conditions the same way they limit COR on a clubface? How about avoiding equipment rules and just set up the courses for pro's that take away the advantages of the modern equipment. They do it every year for the US Open, why not at every tournament stop? The week after they leave, you can mow your course to suit your normal clientel and the impact to the game of golf is minimal.

I will follow the rules whatever the outcome is, but you can guarantee I will be trotting out the i10's as long as they let me have them in the bag.

Why not change the ball? Wouldn't that be a lot easier? If they are worried about spin, make the pros use a two piece Top Flite

Top Flight XL 3000. You can't go wrong with that hehehehe

With VGrooves, players will use higher spinning balls, and adjust their driver lofts and AoA to keep up the distance. The same players will be at the top of the leaderboards. Grow out the rough, its easier.

I'm not worried about it... I'll never play in the Tour, and I'll rarely if ever, play a tournament.

That said, if I still have ANY of the clubs I have right now in 10 years... hell, 5 years... thats something..

My forged irons, certainly won't last 10 years...so bring on the XYZ grooves for all I care.

+1000, really who here will this affect?

Only those who have worried themselves into a tizzy over it... :ugly25:

I think it will adversely effect any golfer who shoots under 95. I'm figuring it will add 1 or 2 strokes per round to their score. Guys who are shooting in low 80s and below will probably lose 2 or 3 stroke per round to the grooves. Guys who have been playing bomb and gouge will lose 3 to 4 strokes per round. There is nothing scientific but that is my best guess what will happen to people's scores.

I will bet that it will be the single digit handicappers who will be hurt the most by this rule. The PGA pros are good enough that they will overcome the rule with other technology, training and better swing mechanics. The pros are also doing this as a full time job so their hours and hours of practice will help them compensate.

you have to elaborate Fish. Just how will the grooves do all that? Any player who it will clearly hurt is good enough to change their game to fit.

The reason I think the single digit guys will be hurt the most is that they are good enough to take full advantage of the current grooves from out of the rough. No doubt the current grooves are a big advantage to the single digit player.

There is no good way to adjust to a ball coming out of the rough with substantially less spin with V-grooves. If you hit it in the rough you will drop strokes, its as simple as that. From the rough you will be much less likely to land the ball on the green and stop it. You will also have a much more difficult time controlling carry distances from out of the rough.

Something else I just though of. For the casual golfer who shoots 120 on any given day and struggles to get the ball airborn to begin with. What will the effect be on this player's ability to get the ball airborn with V-grooves and reduced spin? Won't the rolled back grooves hurt this player who does not make solid contact or chunks many of his shots? Will this player get frustrated with the game and give it up? I would think any fat shot would be made even worse with V-grooves. Just a thought.

At some point we need to change the gear, as that is easier than changing the courses.

It's not a situation that is unique to golf.

Clubs and balls need to be in somewhat correlation to the track.

I should not be driving greens on 315 yd par 4's. Yes it's exciting, but I never use mid irons on many courses any more.

I played Saturday and never touched the 5 or 6 iron.

I believe the best way to accomplish what you say is by changing the ball or limiting the size of driver heads. Really the game is difficult enough though as it is.

This sort of illogical rationalization is just nuts. I learned the game with blades with V-grooves. I didn't get frustrated and give up, I just played golf. Everybody who took up the game before me, and for quite a while after me did the same. Golf was steadily gaining in popularity long before Ping started the groove revolution and rolling them back isn't going to make a particle of difference. Golf has been in a decline for a few years now, and the that isn't due to anything much more than players who jumped on the Tiger bandwagon have found that it isn't as easy as it looks. The current state of the economy isn't helping that situation either, but even the fact that the grooves have changed will never even be noticed by 90% of the golfing public.

Addressing the part the I put in bold type: All this will do is put more of premium on course management. Play the shots that keep the ball in play. Play to the correct side of the fairway to give the best angle on your approaches. Learn that being in the rough extracts a price. Good players should be able to make these adjustments. I'm only a 12 handicap and I can make such adjustments, anyone in single digits or better certainly should, or they don't deserve the handicap they carry.

You have to be the most paranoid player I've seen anywhere on any of the DB's I participate in. You start these threads and dogmatically parrot anything that Frank Thomas writes. I've already played with clubs which conform to the new groove configuration and it really, really aint that big a deal.