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The Great Gun Debate

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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My personal overview is GUNS ARE HERE TO STAY in the US. The premise of banishment of personal firearms is political suicide. There will always be a debate. Those hand wringing over the thought of guns and those concerned about the criminal element will always be among us. Optimist vs pessimist. (you decide which camp is which.)

The fringe battle will be on the new technology and definition of what is acceptable. Auto firing weapons?? Armour piercing rounds?? Splitting hairs on definitions of assault weapons??? Gun registration as a way of controlling felon ownership??? open vs concealed carry?? purchase waiting time??? restrictions of weapons on specified properties??? individual rights vs general public safety???

I'm sure I missed some issues.

The primary conflict I see coming is a Constitutional Battle between the States right vs Federal Rights in respect to local control. As seen in this debate "where you live" affects your view on gun ownership.

For me living a a low crime rural area still does not put me in the gun control group. Hunting is the norm. Most people around me own for the sport not protection. Those of you living in urban higher crime rate areas certainly have "self preservation" as a motive.

Those living in Suburbia I suppose with a lower crime rate but not exposed to hunting have an alternate view.


For those afraid of the Obama administration radically retracting gun ownership rights need to look at the political landscape. This administration has its time and political will being occupied by more stunning issues. Health care. Iran. Energy Policy. Afghanistan. The Economy. Global Warming. Immigration control. And IMHO a silly state separatist movement (Texas etc). Your guns are safe for now!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no strong political movement towards a suicidal dash to Strict Gun control. Only a effort by the NRA to buff up its coffers and rededicate its core membership.
Whenever I hear someone screaming "The sky is falling" my first reaction is not to avoid the falling sky but to question the very premise.

Good points.. I chuckled at Global Warming though.. What a farce.
 

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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Same here, hell we will leave for hrs with the doors wide open.

Fat, where I live there are just over 900 people. Small town with 5 bars & 5 churches, I don't go to any of them either.

At work most of the people actually leave their keys in the ignition too.


I have an extremely secure condo, in a high rise. Doesn't mean it's crime free. People can still get in if they wanted, and they can wonder our parking deck and take as they please.

Around here, if you have a house and it's unlocked, your going to come home to an empty house, period. Being in a nice neighborhood doesn't help. I'm in a great part of town, real historic, close to everything, but 7 blocks up, is where one of the worst public housing areas in the country existed. The area is still bad, and you risk having your door ripped off and being dragged in the street for pennies over there. But just 1 block from me, are $700,000-$2,000,000 homes... That inner-city for you.

I lived in a historic turn of the century high rise a few years back. Had all kinds of security, and concierge service, the whole nine... But I was in the middle of downtown Atlanta, near the central hub of tourism, and business.. Public transportation near by, small side streets. My car was broken into twice. I was accosted by homeless people daily. So much that I would blow a gasket on the same ones who'd lie each day to me for years. I got tired of them and ignored most. I had one come up behind me and grab my arm and spin me around. I saw him at the last minute in the glass window on the sidewalk in a side street.. I punched him, and he swung back and lunged at me. I backed up to get space between him as I unleashed some rather bad words. He demanded my wallet and truck keys as I was steps from the parking deck I parked in. I was just some young guy in a polo shirt, flip flops and torn up jeans, he thought I might have been a student at the college campus spread everywhere in town... I told him to kiss my ass, and walked sideways away from him, he kept coming, so I pulled my gun. When he saw the barrel of that .40 S&W staring him down instead of the wallet he thought I was pulling out, he decided he didn't want to bleed over the debit and credit cards in my wallet that I would cancel in minutes. He ran like the wind, and I called the cops. They didn't do shit, and here I was with a ripped shirt, and a face redder than a beet. Needless to say, homeless people must talk because I rarely if ever got asked for change again.

What would I have done without a gun? Get beat to hell, and lose everything I have? I'm not a super big guy, and I have more sense than to throw down and fight with some idiot.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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...and I have more sense than to throw down and fight with some idiot.
Big +1 there.

To add to that, i have more sense than to throw down and fight with some guy that has nothing to lose.

Homless guy gets thrown in jail, big whoop...he gets three hots and a cot for free(basically). Me...well, i get a big disorderly conduct(at the very least) ticket that could really mess up my chances of acquiring a lot of things.

Plus, again, this is a lose lose situation for me. The bum beats my ass, i am off work, losing money, possibly losing my job, paying what my insurance won't pay the hospital...etc etc etc. I beat the homeless guys ass, he lies his ass off to the cops(its my word against his), and my picture is in the local papers as the guy that beat the shit out of the poor homeless guy...all he wanted was some change right? Plus the disorderly conduct ticket for fighting...

Let him know that i am not a victim...i will not cower and positively reinforce his criminal behavior by giving him what he wants for nothing. What are my choices for getting this guy arrested? Call the cops...yeah, what do i tell the cops? "It was a homeless guy lives in that box right there"....right...they will get right on that.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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Video: Teen Attacked, Beaten to Death in Melee - Chicago Breaking News

This poor soul just died because of a board to his head. None of them had guns, didn't seem to stop them from killing 1 and putting several others in a hospital. This was a gang fight, and the only one that died wasn't even in a gang(AFAIK).

Would a gun helped or made this situation worse? No one will ever know.

Lets go through possible scenario's here. Put yourself in some of the situations

1. The camera guys shoes
2. The boy's shoes
3. A person walking down the street

There are different laws everywhere but the ones i know the most are Florida's since thats where i have a license currently so i will use those laws.

1. This is the worst person to be as far as i am concerned. In the middle of it, distracted by a camera, and a bunch of people around you swinging boards. I legally have a right to use deadly force to save the life of myself or another person. Obviously this boy is being beaten to death and these gang members have no regard for his well being, i would be justified to shoot, but i would not. There are too many of them, there are too many by-standers, and killing a gang member in front of a bunch of his fellow members is not something i want to get into. I would probably flee the area, and contact police ASAP.

2. I would have drawn and fired at the first person to swing a board at me. I feel that is a life threatening situation and i would have defended myself. Period. Honestly, i wouldn't put myself in that situation to begin with. I see a fight like that going on, i am calling police and leaving the area. However, if someone comes at me with a board and i have no other choice, my first answer would have been what happened.

3. Flee the area and contact authorities asap. Again, there is no reason for me to go into the fight. It does not involve, me, i should not make myself a part of it.

The first thing taught in a concealed carry course is situational awareness and avoidance. Staying out of situations in which you would need your gun is the main priority. However, there are possible situations beyond your control, and those are the situation in which we are prepared for.
 

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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I was listening to the news about that, terrible story now matter how it gets changed around.

The one thing that they talked about, was in the Chicago school district, how many kids have been shot, or shot at. That there was somewhere around 200 incidences this year involving gun fire..

Pretty ironic, since Chicago has a hand gun ban. I wonder how people still get shot there.
 

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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Also, Clark.. If I walked by and saw that happening, I would have called the police, and tried to stop the beating some how..Thats just some senseless crap there.

The worst part, is had someone stepped in, tried to save the kid, stop the fight, and in turn ended being attacked. If they were a carrying member of society, in Chicago, it's not allowed. While they might have not killed anyone, but stopped the fight and shot one or two people attacking him, that person would be sued and put UNDER the jail for what they did.

The laws have it stacked against those who attempt to help others sometimes, and thats pretty frustrating.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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Fat, did you hear about the new trend...

Criminals entering homes are now yelling "POLICE" in an attempt to throw off home-owners and get the upper hand in the situation...

Thing is, i have no reason for the police to come to my house, so yelling police or not, i am shooting.
 

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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Fat, did you hear about the new trend...

Criminals entering homes are now yelling "POLICE" in an attempt to throw off home-owners and get the upper hand in the situation...

Thing is, i have no reason for the police to come to my house, so yelling police or not, i am shooting.

Yeah, I have heard that, and we've had a problem with it here in the past year.. They usually come in guns blazin' and shoot most that get in front of them. That split second for you to decide if it's police, get you killed.

I'm shooting regardless. We can sort it out later.

Last year, when I moved into my new condo, apparently someone a while back lived here, and was a scum bag scammer who wrote bad checks, and ran up a bad credit background. I was getting TONS of credit turn over papers, and crap for this guy.. Then I get a criminal notice to appear in court in Savannah..

Then a few weeks later, after I leave for work, 4 plain clothes officers show up at the house, beating on the door. Scared the hell out of my girlfriend, who took the gun to the door. They wouldn't tell her who they were, so she didn't open. One of them finally showed his badge through the peephole. They realized it was an old address and left, but they wanted to look around the house, and she declined to let them.

Point being.. They should have said who it was when they knock. There is no way for someone to flee anywhere other than my front door.. She wasn't about to open the door to 4 big black guys who kept a distance and paced around the front door, and did nothing but bang on it.
 

FATC1TY

Taylormade Ho' Magnet
May 29, 2008
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Not really surprised that was coming. DC got knocked down, why not go after all the other cities who violate it.

I still think the cities have the right to have specific laws on handguns, but not an all out ban. Atlanta doesn't allow the discharge of a firearm in the city limits. If I legally shoot someone, I could still withstand the charge of "discharging a firearm in the city limits"... Who cares, really? I've yet to hear it charged against someone in self-defense.


Chicago is a black hole, and I wouldn't go there for a darn thing. The ironic part, is all the gun companies in IL anyways.. Wierd.

And the Brady Campaign makes me laugh so hard sometimes...
 

EnglishGolfer

Talks a good game
Oct 3, 2005
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I sincerely hope that those who previously disagreed with me are now wise enough to reconsider. This madness cannot be allowed to continue.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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I sincerely hope that those who previously disagreed with me are now wise enough to reconsider. This madness cannot be allowed to continue.
Still have yet to see a gun kill someone by itself.

Would have been better had he just used a bomb?

Schools are gun free zones. Obviously making guns more illegal would help right? Think logically not emotionally.
 

Dogfish Head

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Still have yet to see a gun kill someone by itself.

Would have been better had he just used a bomb?

Schools are gun free zones. Obviously making guns more illegal would help right? Think logically not emotionally.

Guns are far easier to obtain than bombs. I like my firearms but there has to be something done. I don't have the answers but this is getting ridiculous. Our culture is so violent. Just last night I was at Zaxby's and show one of those Toy dispensers that dispensed toy guns and grenades.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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Guns are far easier to obtain than bombs. I like my firearms but there has to be something done. I don't have the answers but this is getting ridiculous. Our culture is so violent. Just last night I was at Zaxby's and show one of those Toy dispensers that dispensed toy guns and grenades.
You can make bombs so easily out of materials easily obtained by anyone. directions are on the internet.

Kids used to play cowboys and indians, play with toy guns, all of that. We never had these problems back then. Prove the correlation between what kids play with and stuff like this.
 

Dogfish Head

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You can make bombs so easily out of materials easily obtained by anyone. directions are on the internet.

Kids used to play cowboys and indians, play with toy guns, all of that. We never had these problems back then. Prove the correlation between what kids play with and stuff like this.

Bombs are nowhere near efficient at killing as guns, especially when your targets are not in contained areas. Let's be realistic here if we are going to have a debate.

Our culture has changed incredibly since "back in the day". Our society is more violent. For over half of my lifetime we have been at war. We have violence created by our war on drugs. It's more acceptable to show people being gunned down in movies than it is to show a naked woman.

We are a messed up people.
 

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