The Great Gun Debate

[eclark53520]

Bombs are nowhere near efficient at killing as guns, especially when your targets are not in contained areas. Let's be realistic here if we are going to have a debate.

Our culture has changed incredibly since "back in the day". Our society is more violent. For over half of my lifetime we have been at war. We have violence created by our war on drugs. It's more acceptable to show people being gunned down in movies than it is to show a naked woman.

We are a messed up people.

You may be right, how is banning guns going to change that? It won't.

Bombs aren't efficient at killing? You cannot be serious.

 

[Dogfish Head]

You may be right, how is banning guns going to change that? It won't.

Bombs aren't efficient at killing? You cannot be serious.

Not the type of bombs you build from online tutorials. If bombs were easier and more efficient people wouldn't be using guns to kill people in school shootings.

I'm not saying banning guns will. I'm not providing a clear cut solution. I think nothing will change until American culture changes first.

 

[eclark53520]

Not the type of bombs you build from online tutorials. If bombs were easier and more efficient people wouldn't be using guns to kill people in school shootings.

I'm not saying banning guns will. I'm not providing a clear cut solution. I think nothing will change until American culture changes first.

The bomb in Oklahoma city seemed to do fine. Mostly fertilizer.

I agree. The culture of America needs to change. That's the only thing that's going to help. Banning guns isn't the answer. Banning alcohol wasn't the answer. The last weapon ban didn't do squat. What's the definition of insanity again?

 

[BigJim13]

The bomb in Oklahoma city seemed to do fine. Mostly fertilizer.

I agree. The culture of America needs to change. That's the only thing that's going to help. Banning guns isn't the answer. Banning alcohol wasn't the answer. The last weapon ban didn't do squat. What's the definition of insanity again?

The bomb in Oklahoma City was made by somebody who had expertise that most people do not have.

Banning guns isn't the answer, I agree. Just look at Canada and Europe to see how that has worked out...

 

[Dogfish Head]

The bomb in Oklahoma City was made by somebody who had expertise that most people do not have.

Banning guns isn't the answer, I agree. Just look at Canada and Europe to see how that has worked out...

On top of that, anyone buying that large amount of fertilizer would be flagged today.

 

[eclark53520]

On top of that, anyone buying that large amount of fertilizer would be flagged today.

So the government checks every single farmer in the USA every year?

 

[eclark53520]

The bomb in Oklahoma City was made by somebody who had expertise that most people do not have.

Banning guns isn't the answer, I agree. Just look at Canada and Europe to see how that has worked out...

Expertise that can be gained by anyone with the internet and enough determination i assure you.

 

[Dogfish Head]

So the government checks every single farmer in the USA every year?

Yes because that's what I meant. Obviously they only look at people who have no business owning fertilizer in large quantities.

 

[EnglishGolfer]

Still have yet to see a gun kill someone by itself.

Would have been better had he just used a bomb?

Schools are gun free zones. Obviously making guns more illegal would help right? Think logically not emotionally.

They can't do any damage to innocents without a moron on the end of it, and that's the main issue - why should some every day imbecile have the power of life and death? As for the 'bomb' comment, I cannot understand why you think that helps justify the horrific actions of such people.

Consider just how many Americans are in psycotherapy, add this to the number who have had psycotherapy and the number of people out there who really need it but will never get it. This is a big number (here's a bit of info' http://www.elementsbehavioralhealth...mental-disorders-with-medication-not-therapy/ ).


I doubt you bothered reading the above so I'll summarise it like this; which of the following is preferable?

A) To own guns to possibly help to prevent something that has a small probability of happening (ie a home invasion)

B) Ban guns to put a stop to massacres that actually do happen.


According to the Brady campaign, the number of people murdered using guns in one year was as follows;
Finland - 17 people
Australia - 35
England and Wales - 39
Spain - 60
Germany - 194
Canada - 200
The U.S - 9484

What on Earth will it take for a change to be made?

 

[Wi-Golfer]

http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story

Ban knives as well, along with the list I gave in that other thread. This type of crap has gone on for a long time but unfortunately in todays world where we get news the instant it happens we are all more aware of what's happening.

Banning guns will work as well as banning alcohol did, or how about banning drugs, that's worked out real well.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

And then we stories like this http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4527526 which aren't covered by our media because it doesn't fit their agenda. If it weren't for this citizen owning a gun the officer would be dead.

 

[EnglishGolfer]

You can't argue with facts:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list?CMP=twt_gu
I'll save you the trouble if you can't be bothered to read the article. It's a league table showing every major country in the world, the number of homicides by firearm in each country, the % of homicides by firearm in each country, homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population, and the big one is a 'rank by rate of ownership'. Have one guess where the U.S sits, that's right, they occupy the number one position.

You might be of the view that it's too late now, the guns are out there already. Thankfully they were enlightened enough in Autralia to try to make a change for the better following a massacre in 1996 in Tasmania - further info can be found here http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

Still clinging to your misguided beliefs? How about the example that Japan sets instead then? http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Can I ask you how you would be feeling if a terrorist with a beard from another country had killed those poor children? I'm going to assume you wouldn't be suggesting that a bomb would have been a better choice of weapon.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

I don't give a crap about numbers, we have a lot of crazy bastards here we all know that. There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube and I don't want to. Arguing/debating this on an obscure website sure as hell isn't the answer to the issue.

I guess you didn't read my link to the school in China where students were attacked by some wackjob with a knife, the article even says that's happening more and more in that country.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

Can I ask you how you would be feeling if a terrorist with a beard from another country had killed those poor children? I'm going to assume you wouldn't be suggesting that a bomb would have been a better choice of weapon.

Hmm terrorists with beards....why don't we ban airplanes since they used a few to commit one of the worst attacks ever on my country?

 

[EnglishGolfer]

I don't give a crap about numbers, we have a lot of crazy bastards here we all know that. There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube and I don't want to. Arguing/debating this on an obscure website sure as hell isn't the answer to the issue.

I guess you didn't read my link to the school in China where students were attacked by some wackjob with a knife, the article even says that's happening more and more in that country.

how about the number 27? I'm staggered by your attitude to the worth of the life of innocent children. You have no valid argument.

Yes there was a lunatic going crazy with a knife in China, how many did he kill? - ZERO, because he wasn't able to gain access to a gun.