1. Welcome To ShotTalk.com!

    We are one of the oldest and largest Golf forums on the internet with golfers from around the world sharing tips, photos and planning golf outings.

    Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon!

The Great Gun Debate

Discussion in 'No Golf For You!' started by eclark53520, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Also, although I do disagree with some of you, I do consider all of you friends and don't want you to think anything different.

    There is common ground here. I just don't think banning guns is it.
     
    nututhugame likes this.
  2. nututhugame

    nututhugame Winter Sucks! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,939
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    My wife and I were just talking about that E. We're there man. People want this. They don't realize or even care what super shady $hit our gov. has done/is doing. It's the reason Ron Paul retired from congress and is aiming his efforts at young people at college campuses... because the majority of a couple generations are gone. The responsible self respecting citizen is almost extinct.
     
  3. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,136
    Likes Received:
    1,463
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    Madison, Wi
    Country:
    United States United States
    Who or what determines a gun to be an assualt weapon? Is it magazine capacity, caliper, looks? Hell just based on looks and capacity my little Mossberg .22 tactical would fall under the assault weapon banner. A 12 gauge would make a hell of an assault weapon as well, fast and easy to reload and puts out a hell of a punch.
     
  4. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Yup, assault weapon is a made up term and the vast majority of people in this country know so little about guns they wouldn't know your 22 from a true select fire military weapon. Yet they're the ones that think they know what's best on the gun front. Doesn't make sense.
     
  5. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,136
    Likes Received:
    1,463
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    Madison, Wi
    Country:
    United States United States

    That's exactly it, any weapon used to assault someone could be considered an assault weapon. Like I asked who or what determines that imaginary line in the sand? Would my Ruger with the 15rd mag be considered one? How's about if I use the 10 rd mag instead?
     
  6. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    168
    I now realise that you're too blinkered in your views to even consider change, even change that the rest of the world knows would be for the better. This is highlighted by the use of the sentence "regardless of the facts". What else is worth considering more than facts and evidence? Tradition and stubbornness?

    Using the "guns are out there already so determined idiots will always get hold of one when they want " argument doesn't cut it either because you're not thinking about the long term gain of banning guns, for the sake of shock value you are only thinking what it could possibly be like immediately after a ban. Is it not logical that reduced access to guns reduces gun related crimes?
     
    BigJim13 likes this.
  7. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    363
    This guy was a law abiding citizen until he wasn't and then got a gun.

    If that gun wasn't available to him, these kids would be alive today.
     
    EnglishGolfer likes this.
  8. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    363
    We are a gun obsessed country. We hide behind the 2nd amendment as the catch all to have as little gun control as possible.

    I ask this: how's that working so far?

    How many shootings have there been just this year that made national headlines? Each one of those shooters was a law abiding citizen using a legally obtained gun, correct?

    So where were all these vigilant law abiding gun owners who "need" to carry so they can protect good from evil when those shootings occurred?

    We have tried letting everybody own, hasn't worked out to well. When a child misbehaves, we take away privileges. I think it's now time to start taking away gun privileges.
     
    EnglishGolfer likes this.
  9. nututhugame

    nututhugame Winter Sucks! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,939
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Why can there be no middle ground with you? It's either all out ban or nothing. We do need change in some ways, but we don't necessarily need to be like the UK. You don't seem to be able to except the fact that there is no magic fairy that sprinkle some pixie dust and make it so that guns never existed. So.... since they do exist, and the fabric of our nation was stitched in such a fashion that the citizens have arms. It would be a monumental catastrophe to attempt to take guns away. Don't you get that?

    One change that needs to happen is that the NRA needs to put as much effort into working with people and organizations on gun safety and a safe responsible gun culture as they do simply lobbying for people to have arms. Their actions in this manner resemble warnings on cigarette packs... they do what they have to to say they are for gun safety, but they are a lot more about pushing their agenda and lobbying.
     
  10. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Yes, because when a couple teens get grounded, every citizen in the states gets grounded right? when one person is arrested for drunk driving everyone gets their license revoked? No as I've been saying you punish the one who was misbehaving. We don't blame the alcohol, we don't blame the car, blame and punish the person. Why is this any different? Because people have been brainwashed into believing guns are the problem.
     
  11. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    The long term gain of banning guns is an oppressive government. Your ok with being a subject, Im not. That's why you don't live here.

    I have a right to protect my family. Unless you can show me a country with zero crime, which you can't, i won't be giving up my means to protect them.

    If Im 'blinkered' for wanting to live free and protect my family, Im perfectly fine with that.
     
  12. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    363
    We are all punished for other drunk drivers, the legal BAC is set for pretty much one or two beers. Have a drink at the bar and get caught driving home, pretty clear what happens.

    Ban guns and when a crazy does this I can't go out and do the same thing. It's time to get extreme, this let everyone own whatever they want clearly isn't working.

    I was the guy that was middle of the road prior to this latest shooting. We keep getting told "by our oppressive government" after every shooting that now is not the time for a fight, we'll guess what? This time is different, it was a school FULL OF CHILDREN that a person went in with legally obtained weapons and killed 20 children. He had 32 shots so didn't even have to reload. If now is not the time for change, then when?
     
  13. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Explain to me the process legally obtain a weapon. Because from what Im hearing you don't know the process.
     
  14. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    363
    I do not know the process but the gun he had was registered to his mother and owned by his mother. Had she not been able to own that gun, those kids would be alive today.

    And why did she own that gun? It was one of the safest places in the country?
     
  15. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    So he didn't legally obtain that weapon. Im fairly sure theft is still illegal.

    You should educate yourself on a subject you feel so strongly about. You will see that guns are regulated more than driving drunk and alcohol general. Last I checked, drunk driving was still killing lots of. innocent people per year.
     
  16. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    168
    How tragic will an action have to be to get you 2 to consider that there are better options? You Go on about these imaginary home invaders that you need to protect your kids from, but what if it was your kids' school? Your gun at home would be useless, but the gun in the hand of the psychopath did exactly what he wanted it to do.

    Innocent people are dying all too often, don't you think it's time for a change?
     
  17. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    168
    That's the point! The regulation you speak of is clearly an inadequate measure. Guns shouldn't be in the hands of the public, they're to emotional, irrational and unstable generally speaking to be responsible for something that is designed to take life. That's also why bringing car crash deaths in as a comparison is fundamentally flawed, because a cars primary role is transportation, not to kill.
     
  18. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,708
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    363
    It was owned legally by his mother, and yes he stole it, but it was legally owned in his household which made it easier for him to get.

    Don't tell me to educate myself either, I think you have apologized once for being condescending, lets not go there again.

    If his mother was unable to own a Glock and a Sig Suaer, one with a 15 shot clip and the other with a 17 shot clip (who needs that?) than those kids would be alive today.

    I know you don't want to admit that, but that's the reality of this situation.
     
  19. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    17,301
    Likes Received:
    7,355
    Trophy Points:
    363
    Location:
    South Central Wisconsin
    Country:
    United States United States
    Yeah, it is time for a change. Its time for parents to start teaching respect. Time for them to quit letting the tv teach them life lessons and take their kids outside and teach them how to work and be an outstanding member of society. Most of these kids never see their parents and when they do their parents are so involved in their own lives they can't be bothered with raising their children.

    School is looked at like cheap child care in this country. Kid gets in trouble, teaches calls the parent and the parent gets mad at the teach for attempting to discipline her angel. There's no responsibility in the lives of these kids. No consequences, no structure, no parenting.

    Its disgusting.

    Yes there is a huge need for a change.
     
  20. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    168
    You're talking nonsense now. How do you propose to do any of what you said? It's impossible. Just give up the guns, it's simple.
     

Share This Page