The Great Gun Debate

[Wi-Golfer]

Let's go back a few years and see how gun control actually worked in Ireland and the UK, anyone recall the IRA? Funny how both countries have strict gun control laws yet the IRA had zero issue with getting whatever they wanted.
Street corner bombings in London, shootings and rocket attacks in Belfast and then going to come here and tell us how our country should be governed?

And if guns are so bad why does Switzerland require every household to have at least own?

 

[Dogfish Head]

Regardless of the 'facts' that you have linked to, we have a constitution. This country was founded on these freedoms and the founding fathers wanted the citizens of this country to have the ability to overthrow if the need arose.

Just like all the other rights, the right to bear arms should not be stepped on any further than it already has.

Don't like it? There are lots of other countries out there that would surely accept anyone that can't handle it.

No one is forced to be an American.

Eh, the if you don't like it get out nonsense is really annoying. There is a bit of cockiness that some Americans have that doesn't help anything. This countries constitution has been amended many times and some of those amendments repealed. I don't think our founding fathers could have foreseen many of the issues that we face today with the amount of firearms we have in this country.

 

[nututhugame]

Our society is just super violent. The walk around and kill people video games, lyrical content of music that advocates killing anyone who don't like it, all tv and movies, etc, etc, etc... Nobody gives a rat's azz until a tragedy, we just keep plugging along letting our kids be numbed by all forms of influence. My mother in law works at a high school in Racine, WI and she'll tell you quick that it's worse than we think. Parents don't give a feck, they just want the kids out of the house. They will actually get pissed at the school for calling them when their kid beats the $hit out of someone and strikes a teacher when they try to break it up! The kids don't give a feck, the parents don't give a feck, and it doesn't take long before the school has had enough and they don't give a feck. Everyone is psycho on some drug be it street or prescription.

Guns have nothing to do with that. I will concede that guns make it easier to walk in to anywhere and take out a large # of people really fast. A gun ban will not help that though. I think anywhere on this earth if a guy wants a gun or two it would not be that hard to get them.

 

[eclark53520]

Eh, the if you don't like it get out nonsense is really annoying. There is a bit of cockiness that some Americans have that doesn't help anything. This countries constitution has been amended many times and some of those amendments repealed. I don't think our founding fathers could have foreseen many of the issues that we face today with the amount of firearms we have in this country.

The lets give up our freedoms nonsense is just as annoying. I refuse to give up freedoms for an empty promise from the government of security. I refuse to allow evil people revoke the rights of millions of good Americans.

 

[Dogfish Head]

So lets repeal the Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, War on Drugs (Freedom to ingest any substance you wish as long as you do not harm others) among many other laws we have that take freedom away from us.

Lets also create laws that protect the rights of people, such as the right for same sex partners to be offered the same government rights as heterosexual partners.

I find it ironic that people want to keep guns so that we can "overthrow" a government that oppresses us, yet there is very little effort put into actually making government work for us and to preserve our liberties.

There are a lot more pressing dangers in this country than your right to own a firearm being taken away. However, that seems to be the one with the most passion associated with it, while the others are just allowed to pass.

 

[BigJim13]

I don't give a crap about numbers, we have a lot of crazy bastards here we all know that. There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube and I don't want to. Arguing/debating this on an obscure website sure as hell isn't the answer to the issue.

I guess you didn't read my link to the school in China where students were attacked by some wackjob with a knife, the article even says that's happening more and more in that country.

The difference was that instead of KILLED the children were WOUNDED and now China has handled the situation.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

The difference was that instead of KILLED the children were WOUNDED and now China has handled the situation.

My point about the china attack was to point out that crazies are everywhere and will use weapon they can get their hands on. ban guns and they will use knives, swords, hell a screwdriver or a baseball bat. We will never legislate crazy out of our society and unfortunately acts of violence like this or the one in Norway are the result.

 

[BigJim13]

I used to be pretty liberal on gun ownership. In our last gun debate I didn't have an issue with people that own guns.

More and more though I am leaning towards banning all handguns and assault type weapons. Hunt? No problem. Shoot trap or clay pigeons? Go for it. No more handguns or assault weapons though, I'm done being ok with it.

This shooting was a game changer for me. I was middle of the road before, not any more. If our kids aren't safe in school where are they safe?

 

[BigJim13]

My point about the china attack was to point out that crazies are everywhere and will use weapon they can get their hands on. ban guns and they will use knives, swords, hell a screwdriver or a baseball bat. We will never legislate crazy out of our society and unfortunately acts of violence like this or the one in Norway are the result.

I know Wi and I know what you are saying. My pint was that the kids aren't dead.

 

[nututhugame]

So lets repeal the Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, War on Drugs (Freedom to ingest any substance you wish as long as you do not harm others) among many other laws we have that take freedom away from us.

Lets also create laws that protect the rights of people, such as the right for same sex partners to be offered the same government rights as heterosexual partners.

I find it ironic that people want to keep guns so that we can "overthrow" a government that oppresses us, yet there is very little effort put into actually making government work for us and to preserve our liberties.

There are a lot more pressing dangers in this country than your right to own a firearm being taken away. However, that seems to be the one with the most passion associated with it, while the others are just allowed to pass.

I agree with all of this except the gay marraige. States can deal with that mess on their own, the feds have no business getting in that one way or the other.

 

[Dogfish Head]

I agree with all of this except the gay marraige. States can deal with that mess on their own, the feds have no business getting in that one way or the other.

As long as we remove marriage all together from the federal government and revamp our tax system so that marriage is not a benefit, then ok.

 

[nututhugame]

As long as we remove marriage all together from the federal government and revamp our tax system so that marriage is not a benefit, then ok.

I wouldn't be opposed to that since I don't believe there should be an income tax at all. Again, let the states deal with that mess.

 

[eclark53520]

I used to be pretty liberal on gun ownership. In our last gun debate I didn't have an issue with people that own guns.

More and more though I am leaning towards banning all handguns and assault type weapons. Hunt? No problem. Shoot trap or clay pigeons? Go for it. No more handguns or assault weapons though, I'm done being ok with it.

This shooting was a game changer for me. I was middle of the road before, not any more. If our kids aren't safe in school where are they safe?

This will not work. Removing the only way for good people to keep evil people in check is not the right answer to this problem.

The fact remains that legally owned weapons are not and have never been the problem. Why should I be disarmed, not allowed to protect myself, my wife, my daughter, my family because some guy killed his mother, took her guns and went on a rampage? How do you ever rationalize that? Nobody thinking logically can come to that realization.

This is all emotion pouring out. Why don't we allow family's to try criminal members in a court of law? Emotions. Its not a good way to handle a situation by reacting emotionally.

I understand your frustrations. Im sick and tired of this sickness as well, any human being would be. You have to logically realize that banning guns won't stop this. There are too many guns in circulation. Banning weapons is a very slippery slope towards an oppressive government. Again history proves this more than once.

 

[BigJim13]

This will not work. Removing the only way for good people to keep evil people in check is not the right answer to this problem.

The fact remains that legally owned weapons are not and have never been the problem. Why should I be disarmed, not allowed to protect myself, my wife, my daughter, my family because some guy killed his mother, took her guns and went on a rampage? How do you ever rationalize that? Nobody thinking logically can come to that realization.

This is all emotion pouring out. Why don't we allow family's to try criminal members in a court of law? Emotions. Its not a good way to handle a situation by reacting emotionally.

I understand your frustrations. Im sick and tired of this sickness as well, any human being would be. You have to logically realize that banning guns won't stop this. There are too many guns in circulation. Banning weapons is a very slippery slope towards an oppressive government. Again history proves this more than once.

If this guy didn't have access to a gun those kids would be alive, plain and simple.

 

[nututhugame]

I don't see a gun ban working in any way, shape, or form. What needs work though is morals and family values and things like that. It's like what happens when my kids go to grandma's house... everything I worked for for the last two weeks goes to shit in a one night sleep over. Society has gone to hell in a handbasket in a relatively short span of time. Even if somehow someone grabbed the wheel... it's going to take a long time to right the ship starting from right now. As avid as I have been in defending the right to bear arms, this one hits me hard and makes me think. What can be the solution to these random idiots hauling off and slaughtering scores of innocents for no good reason and then offing themselves so that nobody can even ask them why? How do we combat this? Currently I can't come up with a good answer. It's ridiculous.