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The Great Gun Debate

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eclark53520

eclark53520

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[quoteclark53520, post: 381550, member: 3701"]My utopia still involves guns. They're a hobby of mine that I enjoy very much. Just like fishing, golf, motorcycles, etc. Some of my best memories involves shooting guns(including semi-auto as you call them 'assault' type weapons) with my family. They have been a part of my life since I was very young. I wouldn't give them up for anything.

What would be wrong with them being kept at rifle ranges? (I'm trying to meet you half way ;-).)[/quote]

I don't personally shoot at rifle ranges. We have our own personal range.

Assuming there was absolutely 0 and I mean 0 crime. No muggings, no home invasions, no assaults, no robberies, no rapes, no crime what so ever, I wouldn't mind them being kept at a range. I'm just too realistic to believe that is ever possible with more than 1 human being on this earth. Since the beginning of written history people have been assaulting and killing other people...it's just a fact of life.

Then we have the subject of hunting. Hard to hunt at a rifle range....


I would love to live in a world where defending ones self wasn't an issue. Believe me, if I could give my life knowing that every person in this world would live in peace for the rest of their lives, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's not that I don't want a peaceful existence, it's that, that's not realistic with human beings.
 

Dogfish Head

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I'm not trying to take away your guns Eclark. But you shouldn't be able to walk into a store and leave 30 minutes later with an AR-15 with an high capacity magazine just because you haven't committed a crime before and you answered no to doing drugs on the application. There should be some kind of process that puts more effort into the individual buying the gun. A waiting period, at least. What that is, I don't have a precise answer for right now.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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I'm not trying to take away your guns Eclark. But you shouldn't be able to walk into a store and leave 30 minutes later with an AR-15 with an high capacity magazine just because you haven't committed a crime before and you answered not to doing drugs on the application. There should be some kind of process that. What that is, I don't have an answer for right now.


I can be OK with that, but like you said...what is that process? What would prevent people from getting weapons that would commit crimes such as this? I don't think a waiting period would work as these particular situations don't seem to be committed by weapons that are being purchased the day of or the day before. Although I did hear(not confirmed) this particular guy did attempt to buy a rifle and was denied like a week before the shooting...

How difficult does it need to be? Obviously it needs to be difficult enough that it weeds out the vast majority of those who don't need them, but if that means is basically impossible to get them for everyone(banning without actually banning them), I don't agree that's the best way to go about it.

With HIPPA I'm not sure it's possible to get the kind of information we would need to make these decisions about people's mental health without them committing a crime already. That's a slippery slope as well, who decides at what point people are not fit for weapons? I don't want to see it come about that everyone somehow becomes unfit again implementing a ban without actually banning them.
 
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eclark53520

eclark53520

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I would also like to see these guys that commit this crap get very little face time on TV news channels. They're becoming overnight celebrities. I have no doubt that's playing a roll into the amount of these incidents we're seeing.

Why just dust themselves and be just another statistic when they can go out in a blaze of glory and be a household name. All you gotta do is be worse than the last guy right?
 

BigJim13

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Where do I sign up to end our involvment overseas? Bring our loved ones home already. Let the whole middle east implode themselves if that's what they want to do.
I wish I could like this twice!
 

BigJim13

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I just want to put it out there that I am a gun owner and I am not advocating an all out ban. I am just trying to point out that America does have a problem and it seems that the pro-gun side has no solution to it, other than to say give people more guns. Put guns in our school. Etc etc.

Can someone tell me why you need an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine? I love the guns but all they are used for is tactical killing. It's why our military uses the equivalent. The 20 year old kid that shot all those kids was using one. He was also wearing tactical gear. How much firepower are we going to give our teachers? Our movie theatre workers? Our mall employees?
This is exactly how I have felt until this, now I have gone over the fence and its time for drastic measures.
 

BigJim13

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I guess I could see it that way. or she just had really good taste in defensive weapon systems.

She should have made sure they weren't accessible though. Especially since her son had known issues.
Not really sure you can call those defensive weapon systems. The AR-15 had a 30 shot capacity and the other two 15 & 17 shots, there is only one thing those are designed for.

I am curious what level of fear makes one own weapons like that? I know your going to say it's not fear but preparedness or security or protection. If that is the case it speaks to a larger issue in society in general if there is that much fear in any one place.
 

Wi-Golfer

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Not really sure you can call those defensive weapon systems. The AR-15 had a 30 shot capacity and the other two 15 & 17 shots, there is only one thing those are designed for.

I am curious what level of fear makes one own weapons like that? I know your going to say it's not fear but preparedness or security or protection. If that is the case it speaks to a larger issue in society in general if there is that much fear in any one place.

Jim your post doesn't make sense in why would those not be considered defensive weapons? In defense you want as much ammo as possible, sure as hell wouldn't use my bolt action Mosin Nagant for a defensive situation. I'll pull out my Ruger with the 15 rd mag or my Mossberg .22 with a 25 rd mag.

This woman was a gun enthusiast and who knows maybe she wanted something for protection, what was she supposed to, go get an old single shot flintlock?

If I could get and own them i'd love to have a gatlin gun, a maxim machine gun, a mini gun, hell even an orignal Thompson would be sweet. I have zero use for any of them but I think of them as sort of artwork, I loved mechanical stuff. I could never fire them and be 100% happy.
 
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eclark53520

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Not really sure you can call those defensive weapon systems. The AR-15 had a 30 shot capacity and the other two 15 & 17 shots, there is only one thing those are designed for.

I am curious what level of fear makes one own weapons like that? I know your going to say it's not fear but preparedness or security or protection. If that is the case it speaks to a larger issue in society in general if there is that much fear in any one place.

Again, not trying to be condescending but your talking about a subject in which your not educated on. They're absolutely a good choice defensive weapons.
 

BigJim13

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Again, not trying to be condescending but your talking about a subject in which your not educated on. They're absolutely a good choice defensive weapons.
Simply because I do not own a gun does not mean that I am not educated on gun ownership. I do not know the legal process to purchase a handgun, but do own and have owned in the past guns. I am saying now simply is that it will be hard for most people to classify those weapons as defensive Weapons.

I did not make that clear in my previous post.
 
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eclark53520

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Simply because I do not own a gun does not mean that I am not educated on gun ownership. I do not know the legal process to purchase a handgun, but do own and have owned in the past guns. I am saying now simply is that it will be hard for most people to classify those weapons as defensive Weapons.

I did not make that clear in my previous post.
Alright, i understand that position. My opinion would be that they're incorrect in that assumption. They're obviously not conceal carry defensive weapons, but they are definitely fantastic home defense weapons.

My first line of defense at home is my handgun simply because its always handy. My main weapon is my AR15. Im definitely not the only one either.
 

anonymous golfaholic

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I need to go buy an AR while Im still able to. We can argue what is right and wrong till we're blue in the face bit the fact of the matter is, shit is going to change.
 

VtDivot

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I would like to make this suggestion.

Lets embrace firearms in this country. Lets start teaching kids about guns at a young age. Lets arm teachers. You want to be the person in charge of our children? Prove you can protect them. Lets make guns as every day as pants.

Lets let every person that thinks they can prey on children at a school, Know that they're going to run into trained professionals with guns in every room of that school.

Think guns breed violence? Ill bet you everything I own that guns have nothing to do with violence. Lack of respect breeds violence.

No respect for others, no respect for parents, no respect for life, no respect for society, no respect for guns. Bring respect back to this country and the violence rates will plummet. Get parents to start teaching these kids to respect them, respect themselves, respect everyone.

I know Im nuts...whatever.

I was in India last week for work. I could not go into a shopping mall or a hotel or a school without going thru a metal detector. How hard would that be to adopt? There are 9 million people in the city I was in... people didn't seem to be put off by it, and neither was I. At least I knew some asshole wasn't going to start shooting in the mall.
 

VtDivot

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Good question. The logistics could be worked out later, doesn't matter though its not going to happen. In a few weeks this will blow over and be forgotten until the next shooting and we will have this discussion again. That may be the worst part, nothing good will come of this, I fear.

Exactly right unfortunately. Although I completely support your position and your proposal
 

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