The Great Gun Debate

[VtDivot]

I'm just curious what do you use an ar15 for? Is it a self Defence type of weapon?

 

[BigJim13]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/20506539/woman-shoots-home-invader-in-walton-county

Yep no reason for anyone to own a gun.

I've never been against guns, and FWIW it's a big jump for me to say lets ban all handguns and semi auto weapons.

The only way things get better is by reaching some sort of middle ground. By anti gun people saying ban everything, that's not going to work.

By Pro Gun people saying "it's my right to own whatever I want" and you just need to trust me, that's not going to work.

I just don't see why there can't be a solid middle ground?

 

[MCDavis]

Please cite where in the constitution it gives you the right to damage other peoples property? Regardless of whether or not you pay for it, that's not a right.

Please cite where it says I can't. My example is very similar to what I hear from both sides of this issue. Maybe not from you, but definitely from others who are very pro-gun and their main basis is "it's my right".

Understand, to a degree I'm playing devil's advocate, to a larger degree I'm serious. I've yet to see anyone here respond directly to the things I've asked (and I probably never will), but I am getting a lot of rhetoric that boils down to "because I want it".

And, asking "what is a full auto really used for" is very similar to asking "why do you think banning guns will stop senseless killing". Neither of those questions is really going to get a clearly defined answer because there's not one. In reality, whether you like it or not, there is no good reason for any civilian to have a fully automatic weapon in this country. I'm not saying it's not your right, I'm not saying you shouldn't have one, I'm saying you can't give me a legitimate reason for USING one, therefore no real reason to have it IMHO. Likewise, banning all guns is never going to solve the problem and there is no way you can prove this point either.

This thread is a great thread, and it's a great debate, but the reality is there is no simple solution...possibly no solution at all. There's just a lot of people debating it.

Oh, and none of the above is directed solely or personally at eclark. Eclark, like I told Wi, I truly like the fact that you stand up for your beliefs and rights no matter what.

Edited to add: while I was typing the "limpalong style" reply above, BigJim posted a great synopsis of what I am saying.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

I'm just curious what do you use an ar15 for? Is it a self Defence type of weapon?

This has already been covered, not a single person has stated they "need" one. I simply want one if for no other reason than I think they look cool and would be fun at the range to play around with.

I'm curious now, what type of car or truck do you own? What's the type of house and how many sq ft is it that you live in? Do you ever go on vacation? If so where do you go?

 

[eclark53520]

Please cite where it says I can't. My example is very similar to what I hear from both sides of this issue. Maybe not from you, but definitely from others who are very pro-gun and their main basis is "it's my right".

Understand, to a degree I'm playing devil's advocate, to a larger degree I'm serious. I've yet to see anyone here respond directly to the things I've asked (and I probably never will), but I am getting a lot of rhetoric that boils down to "because I want it".

And, asking "what is a full auto really used for" is very similar to asking "why do you think banning guns will stop senseless killing". Neither of those questions is really going to get a clearly defined answer because there's not one. In reality, whether you like it or not, there is no good reason for any civilian to have a fully automatic weapon in this country. I'm not saying it's not your right, I'm not saying you shouldn't have one, I'm saying you can't give me a legitimate reason for USING one, therefore no real reason to have it IMHO. Likewise, banning all guns is never going to solve the problem and there is no way you can prove this point either.

This thread is a great thread, and it's a great debate, but the reality is there is no simple solution...possibly no solution at all. There's just a lot of people debating it.

Oh, and none of the above is directed solely or personally at eclark. Eclark, like I told Wi, I truly like the fact that you stand up for your beliefs and rights no matter what.

Edited to add: while I was typing the "limpalong style" reply above, BigJim posted a great synopsis of what I am saying.

By your account because the constitution doesn't directly forbid murder, its my right to murder? Same with rape. That's not how it works. Everyone has the right to keep and bear arms. It doesn't list the right to damage property, murder, or rape.

There's no clearly defined answer to what's a full auto used for because as long as its not used for something illegal its a legitimate use. Just because that use doesn't interest you doesn't make it less legitimate. Other people owning weapons doesn't infringe your rights. What if they shoot me? Doesn't that infringe my rights? Yes, that's why shooting other people is and has been illegal and owning weapons isn't.

 

[eclark53520]

I'm just curious what do you use an ar15 for? Is it a self Defence type of weapon?

What answer are you looking for?

First, we have already discussed this. Second anything a hunting rifle does the AR15 or AR10 can do and typically will do it better. So take any legitimate use for a rifle you can think of, insert an one of these rifles and it will be a good fit.

There's nothing special about these rifles, they're just another rifle. They're not anymore or less dangerous or deadly like the media would like you to believe.

Hunting petty much anything, target shooting any range, competitions any range and style, home and property defense, vermin eradication, etc etc etc

 

[eclark53520]

I've never been against guns, and FWIW it's a big jump for me to say lets ban all handguns and semi auto weapons.

The only way things get better is by reaching some sort of middle ground. By anti gun people saying ban everything, that's not going to work.

By Pro Gun people saying "it's my right to own whatever I want" and you just need to trust me, that's not going to work.

I just don't see why there can't be a solid middle ground?

We as gun owners already submit to regulations. Yet they want more. We agree to more sanctions, two years later they want more, we agree to those and two years later they want more. Why? Because they don't work.

Criminals will always get guns. You won't stop it regardless of laws(remember, they're criminals). Let good people defend themselves. The only thing that stops a bad person with a gun is a good person with one. You prefer to delegate that responsibility to the police, I choose to protect myself. Neither one is wrong.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

Another win for the good guy.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...und-choking-dog-police-say?lite&lite=obinsite

And then you have this
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...etroit-records-deadliest-year-in-decades?lite

I found the interesting part this quote from Detroits police chief which if i'm reading between the lines correctly he wants citizens to start popping gang bangers.
"These aren't the average citizens we are talking about," Logan said. "Many of these people are involved in nefarious walks of life, and there's a difference between a law-abiding citizen who shoots a gun and a criminal or a thug who's out there using one."

 

[Wi-Golfer]

A reason I "need" an AR-15, to save all your lazy asses when the zombies come. Just got my vinyl sticker in the mail, when's open season on these pricks?

 

[BigJim13]

A reason I "need" an AR-15, to save all your lazy asses when the zombies come. Just got my vinyl sticker in the mail, when's open season on these pricks?

If there were ever a zombie apocalypse I could see a "need" for an AR-15 with a 30 shot clip (I called it a clip for Clark ).

 

[nututhugame]

If there were ever a zombie apocalypse I could see a "need" for an AR-15 with a 30 shot clip (I called it a clip for Clark ).

Look up Ronald Poppo. Just sayin.

 

[VtDivot]

This has already been covered, not a single person has stated they "need" one. I simply want one if for no other reason than I think they look cool and would be fun at the range to play around with.

I'm curious now, what type of car or truck do you own? What's the type of house and how many sq ft is it that you live in? Do you ever go on vacation? If so where do you go?

I just don't know anything about them sorry. Was wondering why people buy them that's all.

 

[VtDivot]

And I own a 2011 Honda Odyssey and a 2004 Toyota 4 Runner. I live in a 2400 sqft colonial, and I am leaving on Wed for Mexico. ;-)

 

[VtDivot]

Please don't rob me when I am on vaca also

 

[Wi-Golfer]

And I own a 2011 Honda Odyssey and a 2004 Toyota 4 Runner. I live in a 2400 sqft colonial, and I am leaving on Wed for Mexico. ;-)

Why such a big house? Couldn't you live in a nice mobile home? Why vacation in Mexico, surely there is a state park or a mall nearby you could go to instead?