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The Great Gun Debate

Discussion in 'No Golf For You!' started by eclark53520, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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  2. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

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    You can't argue with facts:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list?CMP=twt_gu
    I'll save you the trouble if you can't be bothered to read the article. It's a league table showing every major country in the world, the number of homicides by firearm in each country, the % of homicides by firearm in each country, homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population, and the big one is a 'rank by rate of ownership'. Have one guess where the U.S sits, that's right, they occupy the number one position.

    You might be of the view that it's too late now, the guns are out there already. Thankfully they were enlightened enough in Autralia to try to make a change for the better following a massacre in 1996 in Tasmania - further info can be found here http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

    Still clinging to your misguided beliefs? How about the example that Japan sets instead then? http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

    Can I ask you how you would be feeling if a terrorist with a beard from another country had killed those poor children? I'm going to assume you wouldn't be suggesting that a bomb would have been a better choice of weapon.
     
  3. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    I don't give a crap about numbers, we have a lot of crazy bastards here we all know that. There is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube and I don't want to. Arguing/debating this on an obscure website sure as hell isn't the answer to the issue.

    I guess you didn't read my link to the school in China where students were attacked by some wackjob with a knife, the article even says that's happening more and more in that country.
     
  4. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    Hmm terrorists with beards....why don't we ban airplanes since they used a few to commit one of the worst attacks ever on my country?
     
  5. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

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    how about the number 27? I'm staggered by your attitude to the worth of the life of innocent children. You have no valid argument.

    Yes there was a lunatic going crazy with a knife in China, how many did he kill? - ZERO, because he wasn't able to gain access to a gun.
     
  6. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

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    Is that your argument? Seriously?

    Once again America is the focus of the rest of the world's pity, but also our incredulity that you have learned absolutely nothing from prevoius such incidents.
     
  7. Dogfish Head

    Dogfish Head Well-Known Member TEA is my HERO

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    Please try to keep it civil. We are all guilty of being stubborn in some beliefs. Sometimes a mind simply can't be changed and you have to know when to walk away.
     
  8. VtDivot

    VtDivot SLIGHTERED Supporting Member

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    I would think most people in the US agree that the advantages to banning automatic weapons would be a good first step in limiting the damage caused by these psychos. I think it's impossible to keep guns away from them, but at least if it were more difficult to obtain a military rifle less people would die in these tragedies.
     
  9. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

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    I realise that, that's the reason I walked away a long long time ago following being berated by all but a small number of posters. i thought, in vain, that people might have seen sense.
     
  10. Dogfish Head

    Dogfish Head Well-Known Member TEA is my HERO

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    We need to look at sources of violence in this country first. Until we stop being scared of personal use of recreational drugs and stop treating people as criminals that use them, we will always have a sector of this country that works on the black market and that will bring violence where ever it goes.
     
  11. limpalong

    limpalong Mental Ward Escapee Supporting Member

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    First, may God be with the families of those who were slaughtered today. Dozens of families will never observe the Christmas season again, without reliving the pain they have experienced today. That said...

    Yes, something MUST change!! Ban firearms?? That, in my opinion, won't even begin to curb the violence. There are also constitutional issues that will be difficult to resolve as the knee jerk reaction is to impose a ban. I was born on a farm and hunted from the time I was able to fire a single shot .410. At one time, I had a Federal Firearms License, owned a houseful of firearms, and did exhaustive reloading for high power, handgun, and shotshells. Today, I do not own a single firearrm. I play golf. I do not hunt.

    No matter the laws passed... No matter the blame placed on firearms... Tragedies like this will continue until we change the culture of today's society. I feel innocents will be killed at the hand of their fellow man until....

    1. SEVERE consequences are imposed for the use of a firearm in an assault on another person. You hold up a liquor store with a firearm... you threaten your ex-wife with a firearm... you are involved in a drive by... ANY crime against persons involving a firearm results in a prison sentence of life without parole. Our prisons are already overcrowded, but it would be far better to have those who use a firearm against their fellow man locked up for life than to have them on the street.
    2. Sacrifice some First Amendment rights in order to preserve the Second Amendment. In other words, put a stop to the hate speech... Put brakes on the anger we see expressed towards our fellow citizens every day on national tv, radio, movies, etc. We have political pundits spewing hate of those of a differing political bent. Disagree? Of course! Dissent? Sure! Discuss? Bring it on! Tell millions listening to radio programs that our Country is lost if we allow elected officials to complete terms in office... Stop it! Air hour after hour of televised talk of how evil our elected officials are... Stop it! Stop the hate! Offer solutions instead of spewing the hate.
    Lyrics of songs that espouse the killing of police and fellow citizens should be banned before firearms. Video games where 10 year old kids sit for hours killing and maiming should be banned before firearms.

    I grew up watching Matt Dillon, Paladin, Rowdy Yates, The Lone Ranger, Hopalong Cassidy, etc. I "carried" a Fanner 50 cap gun and was pretty quick on the draw. If you were a bank robber or held up a stagecoach, you got shot. The good guys won. There were consequences for the bad guys and reward for those who walked the line. Today, the kids see wives beat to a pulp on Lifetime. Our local news broadcasts are quick to fill time slots with crime and mayhem, while little is seen about those who assist their neighbors.

    Until we are ready to make hard changes to the culture we've allowed to poison our society, the banning of firearms will do little to keep the product of that society from preying on others.
     
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  12. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    Anders Behring Breivik, name ring a bell for any Europeans?
     
  13. Dogfish Head

    Dogfish Head Well-Known Member TEA is my HERO

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    Violence exists in all of the world. America has a far greater issue with it than any other country.
     
  14. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    And I don't disagree with that, even said we had most of the crazies, just pointing out that it doesn't matter what country or how strict you make gun laws, someone who is determined will manage to do what they feel they need to do.
     
  15. Dogfish Head

    Dogfish Head Well-Known Member TEA is my HERO

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    I don't think stricter gun control works either. I understand where EnglishGolfer is coming from though. On paper, it does look like it works. It is a deeper issue though. We incarcerate more people per capita than any country in the world. We shun sexuality while promoting violence.
     
  16. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    very true, I never understood the outrage over something as lame as Janet Jacksons nipple being exposed for a mili second yet think nothing of giving our kids ultra violent video games.
     
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  17. EnglishGolfer

    EnglishGolfer Talks a good game

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    Of course it matters. Like we dicussed earlier, the lunatic in China only managed to injure those people not kill them. It should be as difficult as possible for Joe Public to get hold of a gun.
     
  18. Wi-Golfer

    Wi-Golfer Golfer on hiatus. Supporting Member

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    I'm ending this with the old "let's agree to disagree" because neither of us is going to change the others mind.
     
  19. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    Not a single mass shooting in the united states in recent years has involved an automatic weapon. Not a single one.


    Also, the majority of these shooters either illegally obtained the weapon, or were already disallowed to own or possess firearms. So, breaking another law probably won't bother them.

    Again, you can't legislate these people to stop killing others.
     
  20. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    Regardless of the 'facts' that you have linked to, we have a constitution. This country was founded on these freedoms and the founding fathers wanted the citizens of this country to have the ability to overthrow if the need arose.

    Just like all the other rights, the right to bear arms should not be stepped on any further than it already has.

    Don't like it? There are lots of other countries out there that would surely accept anyone that can't handle it.

    No one is forced to be an American.
     

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