Why are long irons so hard to hit well?

[twogreen]

Doc,
I have recently put the Tour Edge J-Max Iron Wood hybrids in my bag and am loving them. Here is a link that will give you a litte more info. At the top of the page you will find a dealer locator. Available with graphite or steel shafts. Retail price for graphite is $79.95; or $69.95 for the steel. Some of the dealers listed in the locator link offer free shipping. I have been picking mine up from eBay...usually averaging about $45 plus shipping.
http://www.touredge.com/products/mens/jmaxironwood.html

 

[SiberianDVM]

I looked at the Tour Edge J-Max and Bazookas. Not bad.
MyOStrich says they can build me some Wishons with Rifle shafts for about $85 each, so I may go that route, unless I magically improve with my 3 & 4 irons tonight.

 

[JEFF4i]

Call me a freak, but I've never had any problem with my long irons solely. Obviously if a quirk arises, it affects all clubs, but I've always been able to hit my long irons. So much so that I am extremely confident when I take the 2 out of the bag.

 

[Augster]

Almost NOBODY should have a 3 & 4 iron in their bag. Hybrids. MOST shouldn't have a 5-iron.

The reason is the clubhead speed involved to actually get the ball in the air. The lower the loft of the club, the more spin is involved to make it go "well up in the air" (to use a Wishon saying). In order to create spin with the lower lofts, you need TONS of clubhead speed. The Center of Gravity (CG) of actual irons just isn't far enough back to create any lift.

With a hybrid the CG is further back letting you create lift with a lower clubhead speed.

What most golfers need to do is be honest with themselves. If you can't hit an iron, any iron, "decently" over 50% of the time you aren't going to score with the club. On the range, with a perfect, flat lie, you should be able to hit 8 out of 10 semi-decently, well up in the air, and down around your target line. If you can't, it needs to be replaced.

With short irons, clubfitting makes a big difference. Getting the lie angle right is really important. The more loft on a club, the more important lie angle is. Your direction is influenced greatly by your lie angle in the shorter irons.

Most folks can generate enough clubhead speed to get a wedge "well up in the air" because the club is giving you around 48* of loft. If you are using a long iron with 18*, 21* or 24* (2,3,4), you need to generate a lot more speed to make up for the loss of loft. Even MORE clubhead speed would be required to get it airborne if you deloft the clubhead.

"In his book, "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club", Tom Wishon writes about the 24/38 rule that experienced clubmakers all are very aware of.
Basically, the rule is that the vast majority of golfers do not have the ability to hit, consistently, and iron that has a loft of less than 24 degrees and more than 38 inches in length. In the 1960's that was a 3-iron; today it's a 5 iron." -from Al's Clubhouse.

That rule was reitterated in Wishon's newest book "Common Sense Clubfitting-The Wishon Method". He goes into great detail why your common player CAN'T hit the long irons and also why they SHOULDN'T carry them. Myself my highest iron is a 5, and I'm thinking about getting rid of that and my 6-iron. I'm a 4 handicap and can hit the 5-iron 200 yards. I have the clubhead speed to play it, but I doubt I catch 8/10 at the range. I doubt I catch 5/10. So both of those are most likely going.

The idea to NOT get a hybrid (or a high numbered fairway wood) just goes against physics. Let physics be your friend.

 

[SiberianDVM]

Went to the range last night determined to figure out WTF with the 3 & 4 iron.

One of the things I tried was CanadianGuy's suggestion to

3) Move the ball a little further back in your stance

so I put the ball 2" further back for the 3 iron, almost to the middle of my stance.

Magic!

195 yards, high draw! And the club felt like butter going through a hot knife. Or something like that.

Same for the 4 iron. 185 yards, high draw.

We have a winner, folks. So I'm holding off on the hybrids for the moment, despite Augsters eloquent and lucid explanation of why we all need them.

For my next whine, we will discuss Why my fairway woods only go as far as my 5 iron.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

We have a winner, folks. So I'm holding off on the hybrids for the moment, despite Augsters eloquent and lucid explanation of why we all need them.

I did the same exact thing, and said the same exact thing. It took me about a week to realize I just had a few lucky shots with my 4i, or the Golf Gods just wanted one last laugh at my expense, as they knew once I bought my 4i/R I would never give it a thought again. I also fall into the catagory that I see no need to carry a 5i when a choked down 4i/R is reliable about 85-90% of the time and my 5i is only reliable about 75% of the time. I used to B&M about what would be my best 14th club, life is much easier now knowing I can carry my 4 wedges and 4 woods.

If I don't see you back in this thread in a week or so, you are a better man than I.

Maybe next year I should go to 5 wedges and 5 woods.

 

[ThatCanadianGuy]

If at one time you were hitting the long irons well, it's usually something simple you forget to do, or don’t know your doing.

Definitely don’t need to go out and buy a few new clubs.

 

[Eracer]

We have a winner, folks. So I'm holding off on the hybrids for the moment, despite Augsters eloquent and lucid explanation of why we all need them.

Eureka !!!

I don't need to stop drinking tequila. I just need to get better at drinking the tequila I have.

 

[SiberianDVM]

The range is one thing, the course is another. Sigh. 4 bad shots for every 1 good shot. Sigh.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Yeah, but you know what it is?

You know that if you can ever learn to hit a long iron consistently, you know that if you can do that, then you know you can hit anything. Last night, going out and playing with a set that had an old blade 3-iron in it, I saw it as a challenge to me and my efforts to improve my swing. Let's see, I had three shots with it last night. The first was fat off the tee on the first hole. Yipes!

Okay, don't panic. I just got out of the car, and I'm still trying to figure out the fixes I need to make to my swing.

It was after that first shot I realized another way to improve my address position. Reduce knee flex, and hinge forward at the waist, bringing my shoulder plane more perpindicular towards the ground.

Second 3-iron, a bit thin, a bit off the toe, but got some good roll out of it.

Final 3-iron, ahh, a beauty fade hit right the way I wanted to hit it.

 

[Farquod]

...if you can ever learn to hit a long iron consistently...you know you can hit anything.

Well, irons anyway. Doc, for 1 season, most of my practice range sessions were devoted solely to my 4 iron, until I grooved it. As Beasty boy says, once you can hit those long irons, the shorter irons are easier. A little more sweep with the long irons than the short, but the downward strike is the same.

 

[SiberianDVM]

The plan:

Tee shot: driver
2nd shot: 7 iron
3rd shot: wedge
4th shot: putt
5th shot: putt

That'll cover it until I get the long irons sorted out.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Now the next thing is if you can wear an all pink outfit, re Ian Poulter US Open Father's Day, and swing a long iron, and hit it pure, the onlookers will be amazed.

 

[dave.]

Augster

'Almost nobody should have a 3/4 iron in the bag,and most shouldn't have a 5 iron'

rubbish

Most 24 handicappers maybe,but many players in single figure handicaps would touch a hybrid,they spin to much,and either hook badly or in my case,just fly to the right,and high,almost via radar.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Most 24 handicappers maybe,but many players in single figure handicaps would touch a hybrid,they spin to much,and either hook badly or in my case,just fly to the right,and high,almost via radar.

Dave,
I actually agree in large part with what you said about lower handicaps, although they would likely be able to hit long irons better, only I have to ask about the hybrid you hit. I know a number of hybrids have a closed face, for example the TM Mid is a hook machine in my opinion unless you opt for the TP version. The other thing that I have heard is that a great deal of people tend to get a hybrid with a more flexible shaft than they otherwise would on their irons or fairway woods, which may account for the push that you mention, or at least it did on the ones I demoed with a regular flex.

Just curious.