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2019 The PGA Discussion Thread

azgreg

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img_3764.jpg


This is a bucket list course for me.
 
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azgreg

azgreg

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Bethpage State Park Golf Courses

  • Green Fees (non-NYS resident)
  • Black Course
    Weekdays (18 Holes): $130
    Weekdays (Twilight): $78
    Weekends (18 Holes): $150
    Weekends (Twilight): $90
  • Green Fees (Residents)
  • Black Course
    Weekdays (18 Holes): $65
    Weekdays (Twilight): $39
    Weekends (18 Holes): $75
    Weekends (Twilight): $45
    Senior Citizens and Juniors (Weekdays): $42
    Seniors Citizens and Juniors (Twilight): $25
Black Course

The Black Course is a difficult and challenging course that should be played only by low-handicap golfers. The course is for walkers only and its slope rating is one of the highest in the northeast. This was one of the last courses designed by master golf course architect A.W. Tillinghast, and is said by many to be his finest work. The Black Course served as the site of the 102nd U.S. Open Championship in 2002, the Barclays in 2012/2016, PGA Championship in 2019, Northern Trust in 2021/2027 and the Ryder Cup in 2024. Our National Championship returned to the Black in 2009. The narrow fairways, high roughs, well placed bunkers and small greens help to make this an extremely difficult course.

The Black Course is closed Mondays for course maintenance except holidays.
 

ualtim

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“The course is for walkers only”

Unless your name is John Daly....
 

limpalong

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“The course is for walkers only”

Unless your name is John Daly....
I don't agree with allowing him to use a cart. Didn't agree with allowing Casey Martin to use one. If you are playing professional football, baseball, etc. and have a physical issue where you cannot participate... you sit it out. Still cannot understand why it doesn't put those having to walk this long course at a disadvantage to someone who is allowed to ride. Maybe Daly will consume enough Jack Daniels during one of the rounds he'll wreck the cart and bow out.
 

ualtim

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I don't agree with allowing him to use a cart. Didn't agree with allowing Casey Martin to use one. If you are playing professional football, baseball, etc. and have a physical issue where you cannot participate... you sit it out. Still cannot understand why it doesn't put those having to walk this long course at a disadvantage to someone who is allowed to ride. Maybe Daly will consume enough Jack Daniels during one of the rounds he'll wreck the cart and bow out.
Casey Martin was a tough one, I could see both sides of the argument. Daly should not get rewarded for abusing his body and then get a cart when his body starts to show signs of wear from that abuse. Daly will melt down prior to the weekend cart or no cart. He will not be a factor.
 

IrishGolfer

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I'm not sure anyone has fun playing a course like this. It's a slog, a statement that your "survived". In my prime and at my best we used to play SHGC from the US Open tees. It was 230-240 just to reach the fairway on some holes. Hit it in the rough and it was gouge out with a wedge. Greens were tricked up too. My best ever round was a 75 (+5) and I holed pretty much everything! Some of the members would shoot well into the 100s when I looped for them. There was not a lot of joy in those rounds and they insisted on playing from the medal tees.

Even the pros won't enjoy this week. It has the hallmarks of a US Open with maybe -4 winning. I'm not sure how they have set it up, hopefully, it's not a slogfest. 7,600 yards par 70, wet rough. No thanks.
 

eclark53520

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I love John as a golfer, but he should NOT be allowed to ride. Either be in shape enough to walk the course, or don't compete.

Educated myself on the Casey Martin case...I don't understand how that's ADA related....he's not being discriminated against because he has a disability...they didn't say, you have a disability, you cannot compete. He can compete given he follows the rules of the game, which by themselves are not discriminatory.


IMO, if he's allowed a cart to compete at golf, then a guy without arms should get an automatic ball launcher so he can play QB in the NFL. Not allowing him the ability to throw the ball because of his disability is the same discrimination.
 

MCDavis

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I love John as a golfer, but he should NOT be allowed to ride. Either be in shape enough to walk the course, or don't compete.

Educated myself on the Casey Martin case...I don't understand how that's ADA related....he's not being discriminated against because he has a disability...they didn't say, you have a disability, you cannot compete. He can compete given he follows the rules of the game, which by themselves are not discriminatory.

IMO, if he's allowed a cart to compete at golf, then a guy without arms should get an automatic ball launcher so he can play QB in the NFL. Not allowing him the ability to throw the ball because of his disability is the same discrimination.
Completely agree about Big John...love him as well.

Casey Martin got a cart because the PGA caved to perceived public opinion.
 

eclark53520

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Completely agree about Big John...love him as well.

Casey Martin got a cart because the PGA caved to perceived public opinion.

I read that he 'successfully sued' the PGA. Now, I don't know if they just conceded the cart because of the lawsuit, or if they were required, by law, to allow the cart as part of the ADA.

If it's the first, well, whatever. If it's the second, that opens a whole can of worms IMO to the scenario I posted above...where people that lack the physical ability to do the job, for whatever the reason, sue to be able to hold the position.
 

MCDavis

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I read that he 'successfully sued' the PGA. Now, I don't know if they just conceded the cart because of the lawsuit, or if they were required, by law, to allow the cart as part of the ADA.

If it's the first, well, whatever. If it's the second, that opens a whole can of worms IMO to the scenario I posted above...where people that lack the physical ability to do the job, for whatever the reason, sue to be able to hold the position.
Actually, I had forgotten about the lawsuit. Here is the result, he did win. Which sucks.

Supreme Court Ruling: PGA Tour v. Martin
 

TEA Time

Grumpy Gilmore
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I don't get the hate for Casey Martin, he has a circulatory disease. Would you guys feel the same if someone couldn't walk long distances due to a respiratory disease was allowed to ride?
 

eclark53520

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The rules to compete are the rules to compete. I don't care why you can't walk 18 holes. If you can't do it, you shouldn't compete against the guys who do. I would also be fine with the ruling that if someone gets an exemption to ride a cart in that tournament, anyone has the ability to request a cart for the tournament. Riding in a cart is a clear competitive advantage against those who have to walk it. Period.

Follow the rules, or don't compete. The fact that the government has their hands in a privately owned competition is bullshit.

I don't hate Casey. Don't even know the guy.
 

TEA Time

Grumpy Gilmore
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Is there a specific rule that says you must walk? I found references to things like "as a general rule..." but nothing concrete such as "Rule 13.2.b states players must walk..."

The Martin case was back in 2001. How many players have you heard riding in carts since then? I've heard of zero. It was also for Q-School which was famously physically demanding. He was also good enough to compete but needed a cart due to a physical disability. The USGA has a provision for players with disabilities but ADA protection is going to trump other rules every time.

As for John Daly, he requested the cart because he has arthritis in his knee, not because he's fat.
 

limpalong

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Is there a specific rule that says you must walk? I found references to things like "as a general rule..." but nothing concrete such as "Rule 13.2.b states players must walk..."

The Martin case was back in 2001. How many players have you heard riding in carts since then? I've heard of zero. It was also for Q-School which was famously physically demanding. He was also good enough to compete but needed a cart due to a physical disability. The USGA has a provision for players with disabilities but ADA protection is going to trump other rules every time.

As for John Daly, he requested the cart because he has arthritis in his knee, not because he's fat.
Casey Martin was allowed to ride a cart while playing two U.S. Opens. At Olympic in 1998, he placed 23rd. He missed the cut at a U.S. Open in 2012.
The "walking only" is a PGA/R&A rule. It is not required by the Rules of Golf. The Champions Tour (senior tour) allows participants to ride. Many from that Tour have played in regular PGA events... and have walked. Whether we agree with the rule or not, to me it is a requirement of play in a PGA event. Hence, if you allow one player an advantage over the others, that compromises the integrity of the scoring for the entire event.
 

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