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Am I being Unreasonable?

JEFF4i

She lives!
Supporting Member
Jul 3, 2006
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Smoking bans are unconstitutional, IMO. An estabilishment should have the right to BAN smoking as it sees fit, as I would if I were a business owner.

But also to allow smoking, really. I think it's gross, and I wouldn't go anywhere where I had to deal with the smell. But that's life. I'd defend that driving range's right to allow smoking, even though it'd mean I never set foot there again.

It would be worth suggesting some zoning though. The top floor for smokers seems like a good idea.

May shock you, but I agree.

Smoking is legal, so I don't see how they can prohibit it on private property, it irks me that they do. Albuquerque is smoke free.

Anyway, it should be up to the vendor.
 

LeftyHoges

I've got the pants that'll make you dance!
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Jun 11, 2007
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Portland, VIC, Australia
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Pretty much all public places in Victoria (my state here in Aus) have been made smoke-free by the government.

I gotta say that while I was working in the local pub and nightclub the greatest thing was being able to go to work and come home not stinking like cigarette smoke and having my eyes sting from it all.

This would have been a very different story 5 years ago before the ban and there is no way in hell I would've gone to work in that environment...

My $0.02...
 
OP
David Hillman

David Hillman

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Apr 15, 2008
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I'm going to give the other side here. I am a smoker, and yes, I'd love to be a non smoker. But it irks me to no end when I hear something like this. It's outside, correct? There is a breeze blowing, the friggin smoke isn't going to kill you.

Well, no. The bays are enclosed on three sides with heaters blowing in from the front. There is little air circulation, and what there is, only serves to spread smoke between bays.

Don't give the sob story about 2nd hand smoke either. There are just as many research's that dispute its harm as there are ones that claim it is harmful. You are completely within your rights to ask that they create and smoking section, and I imagine they will accommodate you. But if they don't, it won't kill you.

One of the findings included with the Smoke-free Illinois Act says...

SMIA said:
The General Assembly also finds that the United States
Surgeon General's 2006 report has determined that there is no
risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke; the scientific
evidence that secondhand smoke causes serious diseases,
including lung cancer, heart disease, and respiratory
illnesses such as bronchitis and asthma, is massive and
conclusive;

I don't want to turn this into a debate on that point, obviously that is not what this forum is for. My point is that, from a current legislative standpoint, exposing people to your second-hand smoke is assault. You are causing them injury, just like if you punched them in the face. That's the law in Illinois, and about half our states. Just as it is not legal to run a business where people are assaulted, it is not legal to run a business were people are exposed to indoor second-hand smoke.

Smoking is legal outside, and when I golf with smokers, it's incumbent on me to tolerate that, because they are within their rights. I went out as a single last year, and got grouped with a threesome. We were riding, so I shared a cart with a guy, and before we teed off, he went to light up, and asked if I minded. I did, but I said 'Go ahead' since I was the one playing as a single, and had no right to infringe on his round. I just walked a little more than usual, and it was fine.

But... according to the Act, I don't think smoking is legal at this range, so I brought that to their attention yesterday. If it turns out to be legal or they just don't care or have a friend in the sheriff's office, I just want my money back. I'm not trying to start a smoking jihad here.
 

Wi-Golfer

Golfer on hiatus.
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Jul 25, 2007
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the friggin smoke isn't going to kill you. Don't give the sob story about 2nd hand smoke either. There are just as many research's that dispute its harm as there are ones that claim it is harmful.

So 2nd smoke is good for you then?
If there are studies which show harmful effects & others which don't show any, why not error to the side of caution & avoid it if at all possible?

My whole thing with smoking is, if you want to smoke go ahead, just keep it all in your body & don't blow it into my oxygen.
 

Pa Jayhawk

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Nov 15, 2005
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May shock you, but I agree.

Smoking is legal, so I don't see how they can prohibit it on private property, it irks me that they do. Albuquerque is smoke free.

Anyway, it should be up to the vendor.
No, actually in the situations described within the state law, it is illegal. Just like anyone with a property does not have the right to serve and sell liquor even though it is a legal substance. Based on that criteria, there should really be no drinking age, or age for which you can smoke as long as the substance is legal. People should be able to just have sex on a restaurant table as long as the property owner did not post a sign that says otherwise. We should be able to use the bottles behind the bar as target practice with handguns.

They are designed for public safety, if they want to consider it private property, then great, but in doing so they are no longer entitled to the same rights established for public businesses. Seems like a fair tradeoff to me. Give up your restaurant and liquor license.

They are designed to protect the public as a public establishment. They are not private. They can't have it both ways and say no laws apply within our business, but we still want the same rights as a public establisment so that we can make a profit. They rely on that same protection by the laws, and public establishment status to remain profitable and stay in business. By becoming a private establishment, they would then be required to establish a membership status on who is welcome in their establishment. That is their right as long as they operate within the established law and zoning.

Our society isn't based around the concept that we are free to do whatever we please, it is based around the concept that the majority opinion will direct the laws. If it is not the majority opinion, it should be easy enough to overturn with a little work. The problem seems that people think they should be allowed the freedom with no work or hardship. That is not want I want in our society.

So tell me, you have no problem if your neighbor decides to open a bar out of his basement and throws all night parties in his yard with firearms, orgies, drinking. He should be entitled to do so as long as he owns the property, right???
 

JEFF4i

She lives!
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Jul 3, 2006
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So tell me, you have no problem if your neighbor decides to open a bar out of his basement and throws all night parties in his yard with firearms, orgies, drinking. He should be entitled to do so as long as he owns the property, right???

This is a gross exaggeration of the initial point.

I understand the concept you are getting at, but I just feel that while some things are understandable, a business should be entitled to say whether people can smoke or not on their property.

Oh, and exclude the firearms and we've got a deal, :D
 

Pa Jayhawk

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Nov 15, 2005
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This is a gross exaggeration of the initial point.

I understand the concept you are getting at, but I just feel that while some things are understandable, a business should be entitled to say whether people can smoke or not on their property.

Oh, and exclude the firearms and we've got a deal, :D
Actually it is a gross exaggeration. However it is only a gross exaggeration because it is something that has not currently reached that extreme point because it is enforced by laws against doing such. Without them, I am inclined to believe it would not be such a gross exaggeration.

Go to certain areas of the US where law enforcement is not followed as closely and it is probably not a big exaggeration. I believe they call them slums and are where most sensible people try to avoid living if at all possible. So yeah, what you say is still possible in Illinois, you just need to know where to find the circumstances. You can likely just drive south of Chicago to Gary Indiana. Just look for the barred up windows and burned out cars. Although Indiana may not have the same law, even if they do no one would probably look at you funny for doing any of what I mentioned.
 

fisher

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2008
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Perhaps we can turn this thread into a thread about the slobs who throw their butts and cigar stubs on the course and everywhere else for that matter since 90% of this thread is already hijacked from the original post.
 

MGP

Clubmaking Ho
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Apr 21, 2007
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Perhaps we can turn this thread into a thread about the slobs who throw their butts and cigar stubs on the course and everywhere else for that matter since 90% of this thread is already hijacked from the original post.

Amen to that. I'm generally for smoker's rights even though I don't smoke but butts on the course really get me mad. I believe those that leave them should be beaten within an inch of their life then forced to eat said butts!

I hate littering of any kind actually, especially on the golf course. Candy wrappers, water bottles, beer or soda cans, cups, empty golf ball sleeves, etc. it's all bad. Oh, sunflower seeds too! D'oh! Anyone who can't find a trash bin for their garbage should be escorted off the course never to return. If someone happened to thrash them in the parking lot on the way out that wouldn't bother me too much either. :laugh:
 

JEFF4i

She lives!
Supporting Member
Jul 3, 2006
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I hate smoke and even second hand smoke...

But I hate seeing sunflower seeds on the green more!
 

88cupfan

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2009
60
0
You boys are just looking for something to gripe about now. 35 years of golfing and I cant remember noticing a single cig butt on the course. Cigar butts, I have seen a number of. Those dudes aren't in the habit of getting rid of them in an inconspicuous place. But I must say, they bring back fond memories of when my father and all of my uncles would puff away while at big family outings. A good cigar relates to special times and seeing one lay around just doesn't bug me in the slightest. Now trash, that I have seen and its mostly beer cans and napkins. Again, another sign of good times. I'll pick the stuff up when I can just as I would for one of my dear old uncles. But for the most part the public courses I play stay very clean. There isn't much that can taint a day on the course for me. I work my can off most of the time so a day of golf for me is always like a day at Disneyland for a 5 year old. Its aaaaaaaaaaaaall gooooood!
 

Wayneo

From the bunker
Dec 31, 2008
163
11
I can't believe the nasty tone this thread has developed, but I'll add my two cents anyway.

I'm a smoker. Now having said that, I gotta agree with most of what 88 said regarding smoking areas and business owner rights.

You dont have to go it the place and you dont have to work there. Its a FREE world.

If a private business owner feels he wants to cater to certain group (smokers or non-smokers) he should be free to advertise and promote his business as such. Given a choice, I'd frequent the non-smoking establishment. He put his hard earned money and time into the business, pays his taxes, employs people, and if he increases or drives away customers because he allows/or not allows smoking should be his choice. Same for his employees. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment work somewhere else.

I personally refuse to go to some places because of the smoke. I always sat in the non-smoking section of a restaurant. Those were my choices, but I don't think it should be made into law. I can understand and agree that government/public places should be non-smoking. That's all the taxpayer dollars. Up here in Ontario, Canada they just passed a law that one cannot smoke with children in the same car. Great law that will protect the young that cannot protect themselves.
 

88cupfan

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2009
60
0
Thanks Wayneo, I'm starting to feel like the only person with a lick of sense left in this world. Seems like everyone wants the right to tell somebody else what to do these days. I'm friggin sick of it. I have to admit one thing though, If people didn't get so defensive when someone politely asked them to deviate from there current behavior, maybe we could all get along without so many friggin laws. Like the dude who gets all bent out of shape when I honk at him for sleeping at a stop light. The light turns grenn................the dude sits there.....................I tap my horn to let them know the light has turned green. Just a light, quick tap........................and then finger starts flying and the cursing starts. What the hell is wrong with us??????
 

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