Beaten out the gate

[Dave Ireland]

Bad news .. I got a helluva beating in the quarter finals of my matchplay last night - 6&5 to a 19 handicapper, who I was giving 6 shots to. He starts bird, bird, par, par (missed a 5 ft for bird), bird. I'm 5 down after 5, but only +1. I was also still confident of winning, I was just waiting for him to blowout - it never came.

He was level par for 9 - (27 stableford pts), I had 18 pts so I knew that I was playing well, had 3 horseshoe putts, but I started to feel things were not to be. Strange thing is that if it had been an ordinary 18 hole tourney, I would've been delighted for the lad - but I just couldn't help getting completely frustrated with a 19 handicapper shooting the lights out against me. Matters were made worse in the clubhouse afterwards, when there was a lot of humming about him coaxing his handicap by keeping below the radar.

In hindsight (and being a bad loser), I think I was rightly stiffed - and because he didn't have to return the card the chances are he'll play off 19 in the Captains Prize also......I think the point I'm making is that there's gotta be more to this game than wilfully managing a handicap (which in the 1st instance was devised so as we could all play equitably, in actual fact, so the higher handicappers could play on a par with lower ones). Don't get me wrong, it's not cheating per se, but certainly it baulks the whole ideal of the game.

That's me rant over with, they announced the odds for Captains Day last night. I'm in at a very short 5/1 - the guy I was playing is in at 4/1, so unlike me there's no hope of the bookies getting skinned !!

 

[bdcrowe]

Sounds like a rough happenstance, DI.

Could it be that someone needs to go back to IG's sticky and brush up on why they play?

Seriously, it could be that "chap 19" was doing some hani-managing, but that is his loss in the long run, no? If you were playing against "Old Man Par", then you had a great showing and should be proud of it. If you weren't, then you lost at the 1st tee IMHO, because you gave control of your own emotions away. I say this because you can't control what "Chap 19" will do. You can't control if he plays to a true handi, or if he has a great day by his standards, or if he plays the ol' foot wedge, or if he... You get the idea. Old Man Par will always be fair, if tough. And you should ALWAYS be in control of how you play. Outside of that, you have little control.

Congrats on the great round. Savor what you do and let Mr. Maybe-False-19 do whatever he's gonna do. Again, congrats on the great round.

 

[Dave Ireland]

Cheers BD, I think you encapsulated everything I was thinking. I've been playing solid enough over the last month or so. 5 down after 5, I still felt I'd beat him - working on the premise that a 19 hc hasta have a sphincter spasm at some stage at how well he's doing. I thought that he might at worst play conservatively, what I have I'll hold sorta thing ....and I think all things being equal a 19hc would've opened the door somewhere over the last 4 holes of the front 9. But nah .. turned 6 down.

Gave him a shot at the 10th, which he gladly took and made it 7 and that was the last shot he had until #16. There was a short par4, tricky 4, then 2 par 5 which I felt confident I'd take - talk about big hitters ... so all the way I had a PMA (pos mental att).

All that said, I think you made a very good point that it was lost on 1st tee. To have been all square on #13, when the match actually finished, I worked out that I needed to be -5 ...... speaks for itself . thanks again

 

[IrishGolfer]

Sounds like a rough happenstance, DI.

Could it be that someone needs to go back to IG's sticky and brush up on why they play?

Seriously, it could be that "chap 19" was doing some hani-managing, but that is his loss in the long run, no? If you were playing against "Old Man Par", then you had a great showing and should be proud of it. If you weren't, then you lost at the 1st tee IMHO, because you gave control of your own emotions away. I say this because you can't control what "Chap 19" will do. You can't control if he plays to a true handi, or if he has a great day by his standards, or if he plays the ol' foot wedge, or if he... You get the idea. Old Man Par will always be fair, if tough. And you should ALWAYS be in control of how you play. Outside of that, you have little control.

Congrats on the great round. Savor what you do and let Mr. Maybe-False-19 do whatever he's gonna do. Again, congrats on the great round.

Dave
This has happened to me several times before, and although it is frustrating I have to agree with BD. As long as you played to the best of your ability then ther eis not much you can do. These dudes are in every club across the country.

Is this guy new to the game? A young fella, getting better by the week? His h/c will soon tumble. If it is the other kind, then he will get his cumuppence, if not in this world, then the next. I agree that these guys don't play in the spirit of the game.

Better to lose with dignity and style playing the best golf you are capable of. Right?

 

[Kilted Arab]

Bad news .. I got a helluva beating in the quarter finals of my matchplay last night - 6&5 to a 19 handicapper, who I was giving 6 shots to. He starts bird, bird, par, par (missed a 5 ft for bird), bird. I'm 5 down after 5, but only +1. I was also still confident of winning, I was just waiting for him to blowout - it never came.

He was level par for 9 - (27 stableford pts), I had 18 pts so I knew that I was playing well, had 3 horseshoe putts, but I started to feel things were not to be. Strange thing is that if it had been an ordinary 18 hole tourney, I would've been delighted for the lad - but I just couldn't help getting completely frustrated with a 19 handicapper shooting the lights out against me. Matters were made worse in the clubhouse afterwards, when there was a lot of humming about him coaxing his handicap by keeping below the radar.

In hindsight (and being a bad loser), I think I was rightly stiffed - and because he didn't have to return the card the chances are he'll play off 19 in the Captains Prize also......I think the point I'm making is that there's gotta be more to this game than wilfully managing a handicap (which in the 1st instance was devised so as we could all play equitably, in actual fact, so the higher handicappers could play on a par with lower ones). Don't get me wrong, it's not cheating per se, but certainly it baulks the whole ideal of the game.

That's me rant over with, they announced the odds for Captains Day last night. I'm in at a very short 5/1 - the guy I was playing is in at 4/1, so unlike me there's no hope of the bookies getting skinned !!

Gimme his name, address and email details pls. Let's get the fecker!

 

[Dave Ireland]

Dave
This has happened to me several times before, and although it is frustrating I have to agree with BD. As long as you played to the best of your ability then ther eis not much you can do. These dudes are in every club across the country.

Is this guy new to the game? A young fella, getting better by the week? His h/c will soon tumble. If it is the other kind, then he will get his cumuppence, if not in this world, then the next. I agree that these guys don't play in the spirit of the game.

Better to lose with dignity and style playing the best golf you are capable of. Right?

Agree totally IG, he had played off 12 previously but had been "on the slide" since...... he was returning 20 - 24 pts in the Monday night league, which is calculated on yer best 6 from 7 scores .... he was playing maybe 3 or 4 times within the 7 week period - so while he showed his potential scoring, he never fell under the eye on the handicap comm.

You could make a case for cutting from observation but I think it's an awkward road to go down, as precedents are set to which genuine 1 off high scores are then being judged errantly.

I walked off feeling quite chuffed with the way I played, but I did have an overriding feeling that I had been scalded - but as you say these guys are found out eventually.

All attention is now on Captains and Intermediate Scratch Cup...... ohhhh and yer possible visit !!

 

[Dave Ireland]

Gimme his name, address and email details pls. Let's get the fecker!

LMAO...... spoken like a true Scotsman !!!

 

[P_102]

Why didn't he heave to turn in his scorecard? USGA handicap rules state that a full round does not have to be played to turn in scores....also, that the hcp. committee can turn in scores for players that fail to do so.

P_102

 

[Dave Ireland]

Why didn't he heave to turn in his scorecard? USGA handicap rules state that a full round does not have to be played to turn in scores....also, that the hcp. committee can turn in scores for players that fail to do so.
P_102

I suppose being matchplay. there's an element of exagerrated scoring, insofar as not all putts have to be holed out, gimmes as we call them - in addition there's hole concessions. So basically the score mightn't be a true reflection of the play - in saying that his was, as I gave him nothing ...

 

[Kilted Arab]

I suppose being matchplay. there's an element of exagerrated scoring, insofar as not all putts have to be holed out, gimmes as we call them - in addition there's hole concessions. So basically the score mightn't be a true reflection of the play - in saying that his was, as I gave him nothing ...

Who is this guy, Dave? Tell us more about him...did you know him before you played?

 

[Dave Ireland]

Who is this guy, Dave? Tell us more about him...did you know him before you played?

Yeah Kilted... being a social type of guy I know a lot the members ..I'd played with him last year, and remembered him being dog slow (which isn't a problem so long as it's over a shot and not farting about). He's only a young guy mid 20's, and with the impetuosity of youth, he was a club flinger. In fairness to him, he's speeded up his game somewhat, he's a decent bloke and was an enjoyable opponent, no strops or club flinging yesterday, but sure why would ya be, 6 up at the turn I'd paid extra attention to his scoring over the last few weeks, so I knew I'd have to be on my game.

Ooooh, there was one thing that I forgot, his dad, again an alright fella is also a member. He does a lot of work around the community, tidy towns comm, residents association comm, ehhhh golf club comm - what's that you say... yeah yeah handicap comm

 

[VtDivot]

I've been playing solid enough over the last month or so. 5 down after 5, I still felt I'd beat him - working on the premise that a 19 hc hasta have a sphincter spasm at some stage at how well he's doing.

I'm sorry to say that you were sorely mistaken... Any 19 capper that goes 3 under thru 6 is no 19 handicap. He's probably a single digit and should have been giving you strokes. You were certainly cheated in my opinion.

 

[Lamma]

Gimme his name, address and email details pls. Let's get the fecker!

I hear that! I'm a good sport and don't mind being beaten fairly, but I get really upset when I think someone's cheating me at Monopoly, let alone golf. If the guy has been on the slide from a 12 to a 19, then it means he would have to be "on the slide" for a pretty long time. If it weren't for two or three disaster holes per round holding me back I'd be really close to a 19... I don't know. The whole thing smacks of cheating. It makes me mad and it didn't even happen to me.

 

[mediaguru]

Giving strokes in match play is BS. They should flight it. I hardly ever do anything where I have to give strokes. I'd rather not play.

 

[Bravo]

Golf Digest had a superb article a few years back about cheating in tourneys. I tried to find it on the internet but could not.

I agree about the flighting. It does make it a better way to compete...

At our Member-Guest tournament last month - a 23 handicapper posted a 79 and won it all. And the grumbling promptly began...

And as with DI's case - the guy previously had a handi as low as 12 but "had been playing much worse in the recent past".

Players like this are always dangerous, because mentally they know what it is like to shoot much lower than their current handicap. They are not going into "uncharted waters" but simply shooting a score that they have shot sometime in the past.

One of the best things that our Handicap Committee does is have the golf staff track to insure that players who register to play - turn in a score. Of course, a player can always post higher scores than what they actually shot but this is a good first step. So often, 'baggers' simply 'forget' to turn in that really low score that will have a huge effect on bringing the index down...

While I do agree with bd that you must control your own emotions and cannot control what the opponent does, it is indeed frustrating to play against somebody like this.

The groups I play in on a regular basis have a fairly large span of handicaps. One of the groups has indexes as low as 5 and as high as 25. They play a $10 Stableford every week - in addition to other wagers. It is not uncommon at all to have a 22 handicapper turn in a 'fantastic 86' and take all the money...