Belly no more!

[BigJim13]

I would have been ok if they allowed belly putters but didn't allow them to be used in taking a drop. I think that was a bigger advantage than any edge they got on the green.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Disagree. I believe that a belly putter may not make a good putter into a great putter, nor will it turn an above average putter into the best putter on tour. However, I do believe that it offers an advantage, and will truly make someone a better putter than they would have otherwise been. You're essentially taking the yips out of the game. Golf is about that mental pressure to do something that, really, is a simple movement. There's nothing complex about a four foot putt, physically. The belly putter, or any anchored-to-the-body putter, removes the variable of pressure, and that little wrist hard.

Yes, a guy with a belly putter might still miss a 4 footer, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's missing less of them than he would with a standard putter. If you're lined up correctly, and have manageable speed, how do you miss with a belly putter?

Likewise, missing with a standard putter under those same circumstances is real, real easy. A turn of the hand, and you miss. That's golf.

 

[BigJim13]

Disagree. I believe that a belly putter may not make a good putter into a great putter, nor will it turn an above average putter into the best putter on tour. However, I do believe that it offers an advantage, and will truly make someone a better putter than they would have otherwise been. You're essentially taking the yips out of the game. Golf is about that mental pressure to do something that, really, is a simple movement. There's nothing complex about a four foot putt, physically. The belly putter, or any anchored-to-the-body putter, removes the variable of pressure, and that little wrist hard.

Yes, a guy with a belly putter might still miss a 4 footer, but there's no doubt in my mind that he's missing less of them than he would with a standard putter. If you're lined up correctly, and have manageable speed, how do you miss with a belly putter?

Likewise, missing with a standard putter under those same circumstances is real, real easy. A turn of the hand, and you miss. That's golf.

If its such an advantage, why doesn't every pro use one? We all agree that the game at the pro level is won/lost on the green.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

They putt well enough with it, I guess. That hardly seems like an argument. Not smoking is CLEARLY a healthier life decision than smoking. Why doesn't everyone not smoke? Some people are stupid.

And, belly putters are new. Surely you can't ignore the sudden presence of them in the game and their ever-increasing popularity. It's easier to putt when the club is anchored to your body, period. If the USGA made a ruling that they'd never ban it, it really would be foolish not to switch. But golf is about pressure, and the belly putter really does take too much out of the game.

The game IS won and lost on the green, but it's supposed to be about who is the better putter, physically and mentally. Anchored putters take a little out of the mental, since you really can't open/close the face like you can with a standard stroke. It's just easier, and I really believe that anyone who committed to using one would putt better.

These guys didn't start using belly putters because they look cool. I promise.

 

[BigJim13]

They putt well enough with it, I guess. That hardly seems like an argument. Not smoking is CLEARLY a healthier life decision than smoking. Why doesn't everyone not smoke? Some people are stupid.

And, belly putters are new. Surely you can't ignore the sudden presence of them in the game and their ever-increasing popularity. It's easier to putt when the club is anchored to your body, period. If the USGA made a ruling that they'd never ban it, it really would be foolish not to switch. But golf is about pressure, and the belly putter really does take too much out of the game.

The game IS won and lost on the green, but it's supposed to be about who is the better putter, physically and mentally. Anchored putters take a little out of the mental, since you really can't open/close the face like you can with a standard stroke. It's just easier, and I really believe that anyone who committed to using one would putt better.

These guys didn't start using belly putters because they look cool. I promise.

How is it not an argument? I'd it's such an advantage, why aren't all pros using the belly putter?

Titanium drivers are new also, should those be banned too? Those give an unfair advantage over pros that use persimmon. This is a clear case of one club being superior to another, otherwise you would see some pros using persimmon an some not.

Also, whether or not I smoke does not give me any noticeable advantage in life other than health. I don't have a better chance at getting a job because I smoke or not for example.

Personally, I don't care that they are banned. I use ashore putter and have tried a belly and long putter once or twice, didn't like the look or feel. I still maintain the only advantage is on drops.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Whether or not I smoke does not give me any noticeable advantage in life other than health.

Yes, and a belly putter won't help you drive the ball farther, or swim faster. It just helps you putt... Duh?

If I recall, you also did not understand the advantage of the prosthetic "cheetah blades" that Pistorius used in the Olympics, right? Same premise. And the same flawed logic leading to a lack of understanding. If you don't see the advantage in removing variables from an endeavor, I can't help you.

Is driving automatic easier than driving standard? Yes. Why? Less variables. Virtually all "ease" comes from either reducing energy expenditure, or removing variables, or a combination of both. See: elevators, cars, smart phones, belly putters.

Your point about giant titanium drivers is valid, too. It was clearly a problem, so they put a limit on COR. There is no longer any perceivable, variable-removing advantage in drivers.

My real problem with "then why isn't everybody doing it!" Is that, historically, the majority of people have been blind, or stupid, a lot. The world was DEFINITELY flat once. Slavery was definitely a great idea once. The Earth was definitely the center of the universe once.

And I'm sure there were people then who thought, "if the world is round, why doesn't everybody think so?!" In my opinion, its not that people don't think so, its that they don't think, period.

USGA made the right call. Its fair to debate the extent of the advantage that belly putters give, but it seems simple to determine, inherently, that there is one. Like you said about drivers, I bet the USGA really wishes they'd acted faster on that as well. See any pros still playing persimmon? Why not? A clear, distinct disadvantage? Why can you not believe that belly putters would eventually be the same way?

 

[nututhugame]

They putt well enough with it, I guess. That hardly seems like an argument. Not smoking is CLEARLY a healthier life decision than smoking. Why doesn't everyone not smoke? Some people are stupid.

And, belly putters are new. Surely you can't ignore the sudden presence of them in the game and their ever-increasing popularity. It's easier to putt when the club is anchored to your body, period. If the USGA made a ruling that they'd never ban it, it really would be foolish not to switch. But golf is about pressure, and the belly putter really does take too much out of the game.

The game IS won and lost on the green, but it's supposed to be about who is the better putter, physically and mentally. Anchored putters take a little out of the mental, since you really can't open/close the face like you can with a standard stroke. It's just easier, and I really believe that anyone who committed to using one would putt better.

These guys didn't start using belly putters because they look cool. I promise.

The one thing I still disagree with in this debate, although i'm more for the ban than not, is that IS it really any easier to putt with those things? I tried a couple of them for a bit and to me they just feel akward as hell. I'd never putt better with the anchored putter. It seems to me that whatever variable is taken away with them is put back in to play in another way. Such as... if one cannot maintain a steady base they will tend to strike the ball in different places relative to the equator of the ball, (up and down movement.) Or people who are habitual compensators will actually move their body to make compensations rather than wrists or whatever, resulting in any number of results.

I see both sides. The anchored putter is not a miracle cure is what i'm getting at though. It may be an advantage for some, but I believe it'd hinder others as well. Using either style still involves human operation and error and that is one variable that will never go away.

 

[BigJim13]

I too have tried putting with them and didn't see an advantage. Not getting into the cheetah blades again.

And while I don't really see your flat earth argument, I still hold to the point that if it truly were any significant advantage than all pros would be using a belly putter.

 

[eclark53520]

How is it not an argument? I'd it's such an advantage, why aren't all pros using the belly putter?

Titanium drivers are new also, should those be banned too? Those give an unfair advantage over pros that use persimmon. This is a clear case of one club being superior to another, otherwise you would see some pros using persimmon an some not.

Also, whether or not I smoke does not give me any noticeable advantage in life other than health. I don't have a better chance at getting a job because I smoke or not for example.

Personally, I don't care that they are banned. I use ashore putter and have tried a belly and long putter once or twice, didn't like the look or feel. I still maintain the only advantage is on drops.

Im somewhat on the fence.

My big gripe is that anchoring the club removes a variable. There is no doubt about this, it can't be argued. As far as I am concerned, that's an advantage regardless of whether it makes someone better on the green.

That's why I think banning it was a good idea.

I don't think the club head technology is a good parallel here. You can't stop technology. Trying to would make you obsolete quickly. Anchoring a club isn't technology, its an illegal swing.

 

[BigJim13]

Yes, and a belly putter won't help you drive the ball farther, or swim faster. It just helps you putt... Duh?

If I recall, you also did not understand the advantage of the prosthetic "cheetah blades" that Pistorius used in the Olympics, right? Same premise. And the same flawed logic leading to a lack of understanding. If you don't see the advantage in removing variables from an endeavor, I can't help you.

Is driving automatic easier than driving standard? Yes. Why? Less variables. Virtually all "ease" comes from either reducing energy expenditure, or removing variables, or a combination of both. See: elevators, cars, smart phones, belly putters.

Your point about giant titanium drivers is valid, too. It was clearly a problem, so they put a limit on COR. There is no longer any perceivable, variable-removing advantage in drivers.

My real problem with "then why isn't everybody doing it!" Is that, historically, the majority of people have been blind, or stupid, a lot. The world was DEFINITELY flat once. Slavery was definitely a great idea once. The Earth was definitely the center of the universe once.

And I'm sure there were people then who thought, "if the world is round, why doesn't everybody think so?!" In my opinion, its not that people don't think so, its that they don't think, period.

USGA made the right call. Its fair to debate the extent of the advantage that belly putters give, but it seems simple to determine, inherently, that there is one. Like you said about drivers, I bet the USGA really wishes they'd acted faster on that as well. See any pros still playing persimmon? Why not? A clear, distinct disadvantage? Why can you not believe that belly putters would eventually be the same way?

I finally have some time to reply to this.

1. Cheetah blades: the guy had not freaking legs! Lets leave that one alone though.
2. I don't find driving an automatic easier than standard, I feel I have more control over the vehicle with a manual transmission.
3. I don't see how the world being thought of as flat or slavery as being good fits this argument.
4. All pros have the choice of playing persimmon today or titanium, big headed drivers just like all pros have the choice of playing belly or long putters. So, if all pros playing titanium big headed drivers is clear evidence that those are better than persimmon, then why isn't the fact that NOT ALL pros play a long putter clear evidence that there IS NO clear advantage?

I agree, the USGA probably wishes they acted faster on clubhead size and Frankly I am surprised they havent acted on the ball.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

I finally have some time to reply to this.

1. Cheetah blades: the guy had not freaking legs! Lets leave that one alone though.
2. I don't find driving an automatic easier than standard, I feel I have more control over the vehicle with a manual transmission.
3. I don't see how the world being thought of as flat or slavery as being good fits this argument.
4. All pros have the choice of playing persimmon today or titanium, big headed drivers just like all pros have the choice of playing belly or long putters. So, if all pros playing titanium big headed drivers is clear evidence that those are better than persimmon, then why isn't the fact that NOT ALL pros play a long putter clear evidence that there IS NO clear advantage?

I agree, the USGA probably wishes they acted faster on clubhead size and Frankly I am surprised they havent acted on the ball.

1.) Technologically superior than legs, for sprinting. Period.

2.) I didn't ask if you had more control, I asked if it was EASIER. The answer is yes, it takes much less effort; it is easier. Accelerator, and brake, instead of accelerator, brake, and clutch. Don't over complicate it.

3.) I think it's simple. At one time, there was an ignorant, blind majority who chose not to think, and just said, "then why is/isn't everyone else doing it?!"

Let's take this back to smoking. The argument probably went like this, at one time:

"Smoking isn't healthy, you should quit."
"If it's healthier not to smoke, why isn't everyone else quitting?"

What everyone else is doing isn't an indication of right/wrong. Terrible, inexcusable argument. Make sense?

4.) When titanium/steel came out, do you really think that every pro, INSTANTLY, switched over to it? Highly doubtful. Change takes time. Sometimes change takes war. So to answer your question, NO, the fact that all pros aren't using a belly putter proves absolutely nothing, zero, nil.

In time, I really believe that belly putters would have become the standard. It would take a generation, maybe, but it's just less variables. It's simple, Dude.

 

[BigJim13]

1.) Technologically superior than legs, for sprinting. Period.

2.) I didn't ask if you had more control, I asked if it was EASIER. The answer is yes, it takes much less effort; it is easier. Accelerator, and brake, instead of accelerator, brake, and clutch. Don't over complicate it.

3.) I think it's simple. At one time, there was an ignorant, blind majority who chose not to think, and just said, "then why is/isn't everyone else doing it?!"

Let's take this back to smoking. The argument probably went like this, at one time:

"Smoking isn't healthy, you should quit."
"If it's healthier not to smoke, why isn't everyone else quitting?"

What everyone else is doing isn't an indication of right/wrong. Terrible, inexcusable argument. Make sense?

4.) When titanium/steel came out, do you really think that every pro, INSTANTLY, switched over to it? Highly doubtful. Change takes time. Sometimes change takes war. So to answer your question, NO, the fact that all pros aren't using a belly putter proves absolutely nothing, zero, nil.

In time, I really believe that belly putters would have become the standard. It would take a generation, maybe, but it's just less variables. It's simple, Dude.

1. Whatever minuscule advantage he got with the cheetah blades was negated by the fact that he doesn't have legs.

2. It is easier to drive a manual when I have more control.

3. Doesn't prove anything and I still don't see where you are going with it.

4. Davis Love III was the last to use persimmon in 1997 and it does prove something, you just don't want to see it.

Smoking still doesn't give you an unfair advantage in life.

 

[nututhugame]

Poor little tink tink.

There might be one person on this site that knows what i'm talking about.

 

[nututhugame]

Jim, you know what that's from?

 

[BigJim13]

Jim, you know what that's from?

Is seen it before but your post made me google it and watch it again! Man that's funny!