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Belly no more!

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
Condescending much?

Not thinking and not agreeing are two different things.

Yes, they are.

Logic is an art, and I guess it's unfair for me to expect that everybody has the same grasp on it. Like carpentry, it is an acquired skill. I can't build cabinets. But, I don't try to pretend I can build cabinets. I believe a sensible, rational person would read this thread and be able to follow it without issue.

But at the end of the day, I don't really care. The people making these decisions, fortunately, know what they're doing. Bye bye, anchored putters.
 

nututhugame

Winter Sucks!
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Dec 29, 2008
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Yes, they are.

Logic is an art, and I guess it's unfair for me to expect that everybody has the same grasp on it. Like carpentry, it is an acquired skill. I can't build cabinets. But, I don't try to pretend I can build cabinets. I believe a sensible, rational person would read this thread and be able to follow it without issue.

But at the end of the day, I don't really care. The people making these decisions, fortunately, know what they're doing. Bye bye, anchored putters.

Throwing in mock conversations that may or may not have went a certain way or have even happened at all in order to draw a parallel between smoking and this putter debate is not logic or an art. Sometimes it is unfair to expect everyone to "follow" your thought process while giving college professor style lectures. While most of the time you are spot on, on this issue nothing is fact because while you are taking away one variable you may be introducing others with an anchored putter. Logic tells me: there is no way to really define the advantage because there is human error involved both mentally and physically when it comes to putting or golf in general for that matter.
 

eclark53520

DB Member Extraordinaire
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Dec 24, 2007
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Throwing in mock conversations that may or may not have went a certain way or have even happened at all in order to draw a parallel between smoking and this putter debate is not logic or an art. Sometimes it is unfair to expect everyone to "follow" your thought process while giving college professor style lectures. While most of the time you are spot on, on this issue nothing is fact because while you are taking away one variable you may be introducing others with an anchored putter. Logic tells me: there is no way to really define the advantage because there is human error involved both mentally and physically when it comes to putting or golf in general for that matter.
Just playing devils advocate here, by your logic we should allow the marking of line and alignment aids to be setup because there is still the human mental and physical element in putting.
 

nututhugame

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Just playing devils advocate here, by your logic we should allow the marking of line and alignment aids to be setup because there is still the human mental and physical element in putting.

No, because they are not clubs at all, but since you mentioned it... why are you allowed to draw an alignment mark on your ball and why are you allowed to pick your ball up and align it? I know that you are allowed to clean it and that is a loophole that players take advantage of in order to line up a putt.

Everyones argument against the anchored putter assumes that there are no variables in the anchored style of putting. What if a fat guy uses an anchored putter? The anchor point could move around in his fat. Is that not a variable? The spine angle one has while using an anchored putter would have to be the exact same every time in order for the lie angle of the club to be correct and swing path into the ball to be the same every time. Is that not a variable? I'm sure if we think real deeply into this would could come up with a pretty comprehensive list of variables while using an anchored putter. Some of which would not be present while using a conventional putter.

I really don't care either way. I just like traditional putters better. However, it could be debated how large we'll let the grips get or do we standardize the shape of the putter grip?
 

eclark53520

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No, because they are not clubs at all, but since you mentioned it... why are you allowed to draw an alignment mark on your ball and why are you allowed to pick your ball up and align it? I know that you are allowed to clean it and that is a loophole that players take advantage of in order to line up a putt.

Everyones argument against the anchored putter assumes that there are no variables in the anchored style of putting. What if a fat guy uses an anchored putter? The anchor point could move around in his fat. Is that not a variable? The spine angle one has while using an anchored putter would have to be the exact same every time in order for the lie angle of the club to be correct and swing path into the ball to be the same every time. Is that not a variable? I'm sure if we think real deeply into this would could come up with a pretty comprehensive list of variables while using an anchored putter. Some of which would not be present while using a conventional putter.

I really don't care either way. I just like traditional putters better. However, it could be debated how large we'll let the grips get or do we standardize the shape of the putter grip?

All of those variables you mentioned are pretty much also variables when putting with a traditional putter. Well besides moving in the fat, but the top moving is still a variable...

Anchoring the putter doesn't induce any extra variables. It does however, remove or at the very least minimizes at least one.
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
26
There are still variables, but there is, clearly, two less variables I can see.

1.) The force is applied in an entirely different manner. With a standard putter, the way the force is applied to strike the ball allows for the rotation of the hands/forearms and thusly a miss left or right even from short distance. This is the mental trust/control aspect that makes putting difficult.

2.) There is the potential to move the entire putting mechanism (arms, hands, shoulders, club) forward or backward.

1.) With an anchored putter, the force is applied in a single vector. The lower arm moved in a piston like fashion, which severely limits (if not completely removes) the possibility of a face-rotation miss.

2.) Likewise, the fact that the club is anchored prevents the mechanism from moving forward or backward as a whole, relative to the ball. The player would have to physically move the anchor point during the stroke, which would be incredibly stupid.

Certainly, long putters still require skill, and I stand by the fact that they won't make a lousy putter the best putter in tour. But the movement itself is just simpler, easier to repeat, and less prone to fast twitch errors.

For guys that work out, the Smith Machine is a perfect example. You're still bench pressing, technically, but the weight is on a track. You can't lose it too high or low, you only need to worry about applying force in one direction.

Or, trying to hit a target with a firearm. Do it standing, then do it with the gun braced on the ground, or a table, etc. When "anchored", there are just that many less things you can screw up. You CAN miss, and a truly exceptional marksman may out shoot you either way, but you ABSOLUTELY have an advantage. You have removed variables.

The smoking/slavery/world is flat concepts don't directly relate to anchored putters. They were specifically indicating the logical fallacy of "why is/isn't everybody else..." the majority has been wrong, stupid, and slow to learn or adapt throughout history. What the majority is doing (using standard putters, believing the world is flat, etc) is not an indication that any concept or theory is right or wrong.
 

nututhugame

Winter Sucks!
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Dec 29, 2008
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All of those variables you mentioned are pretty much also variables when putting with a traditional putter. Well besides moving in the fat, but the top moving is still a variable...

Anchoring the putter doesn't induce any extra variables. It does however, remove or at the very least minimizes at least one.
Well the spine angle variable is more relative to the anchored putter because you cannot compensate with arms, wrists, fingers, etc.... And the fat variable is actually more than one because the club could move in numerous ways, each one affecting the stroke in a different way and from one putt to the next all of them will vary.
 

eclark53520

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Dec 24, 2007
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Well the spine angle variable is more relative to the anchored putter because you cannot compensate with arms, wrists, fingers, etc.... And the fat variable is actually more than one because the club could move in numerous ways, each one affecting the stroke in a different way and from one putt to the next all of them will vary.
More relative sure, not exclusive.
 

nututhugame

Winter Sucks!
Supporting Member
Dec 29, 2008
4,939
1,351
Southeast Wisconsin
Country
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There are still variables, but there is, clearly, two less variables I can see.

1.) The force is applied in an entirely different manner. With a standard putter, the way the force is applied to strike the ball allows for the rotation of the hands/forearms and thusly a miss left or right even from short distance. This is the mental trust/control aspect that makes putting difficult.

2.) There is the potential to move the entire putting mechanism (arms, hands, shoulders, club) forward or backward.

1.) With an anchored putter, the force is applied in a single vector. The lower arm moved in a piston like fashion, which severely limits (if not completely removes) the possibility of a face-rotation miss.

2.) Likewise, the fact that the club is anchored prevents the mechanism from moving forward or backward as a whole, relative to the ball. The player would have to physically move the anchor point during the stroke, which would be incredibly stupid.

Certainly, long putters still require skill, and I stand by the fact that they won't make a lousy putter the best putter in tour. But the movement itself is just simpler, easier to repeat, and less prone to fast twitch errors.

For guys that work out, the Smith Machine is a perfect example. You're still bench pressing, technically, but the weight is on a track. You can't lose it too high or low, you only need to worry about applying force in one direction.

Or, trying to hit a target with a firearm. Do it standing, then do it with the gun braced on the ground, or a table, etc. When "anchored", there are just that many less things you can screw up. You CAN miss, and a truly exceptional marksman may out shoot you either way, but you ABSOLUTELY have an advantage. You have removed variables.

The smoking/slavery/world is flat concepts don't directly relate to anchored putters. They were specifically indicating the logical fallacy of "why is/isn't everybody else..." the majority has been wrong, stupid, and slow to learn or adapt throughout history. What the majority is doing (using standard putters, believing the world is flat, etc) is not an indication that any concept or theory is right or wrong.

I prefer to think of it as two different, not two less.


Which force are we refering to? There are multiple forces in action simultaneously in both styles. I understand the force you're talking about, but we are not acknowledging that there are other forces here at work that can and indeed will come into play. Maybe they are not supposed to, but we are dealing with humans here and they will. This is the reason that nobody in the history of golf has ever "mastered" putting, with any style... ever.

Moving the anchor point during the stroke would be as simple as leaning. At all. In any direction. Or pulling the putter into one's self a little harder one time than other times, assuming that all other body angles were correct to begin with. You wouldn't have to be that incredibly stupid to move the anchor point at all. You would have to be incredibly stable in order to not move it though.

WHY is/isn't everyone else doing this isn't even a factor truthfully. As it relates to the ban, what does matter is that these putters are AVAILABLE to everyone. Whether or not they choose to use them is a mute point. All opinions aside... no one person has an unfair advantage when the same equipment is available to everyone.
 

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