Bravo's Indictment of US and Euro pros

[Bravo]

OK this is something that should generate some decent conversation here. Both of the top professionals on both sides of the pond have one dominating strength as well as an undeniable ‘Achilles heel’.

The Americans.

Why do these guys always pull “El Foldo” when playing in the Ryder Cup? They SUCK at team golf, whether playing in Singles alone or with a partner in Foursomes or Fourball.

Ryder Cup pressure has been described by players on both sides as “much worse than a major” and “excruciating”. I’ve seen players on both teams literally brought to tears by either victory or defeat.

At the end of the 2004 tournament, poor Hal Sutton was ripped to shreds for his John Wayne cowboy hat, motivational speeches and pairings. Overall they made him out to be slightly above mentally retarded in his captaincy of the squad.

So in 2006, “that great guy Tom Lehman” is made Captain. “Tom knows how to handle these guys, how to get them in the right frame of mind and how to pair up players who like to play together”. He brings them to the K-Club weeks before the tourney, they drink and have dinner together. He asks them who their best suck buddy is so they can play side-by-side.

And they folded like a cheap whore strung out on crack.

The Euros have had Berhard Langer as winning Captain and Woosie at the helm. Hell they could have Benny Hill or Eric Idle calling the shots and Nicklaus at the helm for the Americans and it wouldn’t be any different. The Yanks just MELT, when faced with Ryder Cup pressure, played on either side of the pond.

The American press has its theories…”The Euros stay in the same hotel week to week on their tour”, “they like each other more” blah, blah, blah. I say BS. The Euros get it done and the Yanks don’t.

2) The Europeans. When it comes to playing alone, all by yourself, in Major championships, they look like minor-leaguers. Simply unable to muster the mental and physical mettle to carry the day.

One Major is played on the same course – year after year. If you took an American and a Euro, each with ten Masters under his belt, they have identical experience on the course. Yet, except for a stretch in the late 80’s and early 90s (Faldo, Lyle, Woosnam and Ballesteros) European players simply cannot seem to win this tournament.

How about the US Open and PGA Championship? Without checking the records, I think its even worse than the Masters… How many Euros have won the USOpen since 1930?

So onto Britain’s own national championship…played on the same 10 or so courses over and over from 1869 through the present. Played on mostly PUBLIC courses that young emerging teenage British and Irish golfers can play over and over before turning pro.... How many times do you think Colin Montgomerie or David Howell played the Old Course before turning professional? Probably a dozen times each…

And then the fickle, rainy, windy weather that Brits and Irish are forced to play in because it is so commonplace. Frankly Americans (like myself) when confronted with a rainy day with the wind blowing sideways, don’t even consider playing golf in such weather. They just pack it in and wait for a nice sunny day to hit the course. I have had several friends and neighbor's sons and daughters win college golf scholarships and I cannot ever remember a single instance in which it was raining sideways outside and the parent said to their child, "Time to hit the golf course and learn play with sheets of rain and wind in your face...this will be good for you".

Yet in The Open Championship, held so often on links courses that Brits/Irish have played dozens of times as youngsters, in-all-to familiar bad weather, is more commonly won by Americans than Euros.

I can’t figure either of these out….

 

[JEFF4i]

My take:

America needs a strong team leader that enforces team cohesion, makes it absolutely necessary well before they Cup.

 

[Eracer]

Two words:

Dale Carnegie

 

[joshing_man]

Me neither!

However I reckon that at last there are Europeans capable of winning the Majors - Casey and Donald and maybe Howell with Stenson on the up. I doubt whether Garcia can do it but who knows? Monty has got close twice recently. They say he choked. Maybe in the British but not in the US Open(?), that was left to Mickelson! It would be great if he could but maybe it is too late.

Tiger is just the best, Mickelson has been up there and will come again, Furyk is so consistent. DiMarco is good but does he believe he can beat Tiger and Els? Same for Toms.

Matchplay is just so different and perhaps suits our temperament better but lets hope that we get Major winners soon as well.

 

[Bravo]

Two words:

Dale Carnegie

For which side?

Take the American Ryder Cup team and put them through the six week Dale Carnegie course?

Or take all Euros before they play a major and do the same??

 

[Rockford35]

The Americans need more of a "team" rather than 12 individuals.

Just look at the US basketball team. A group of janitors and bricklayers from Greece lit those guys up because the American team either a) didn't want the spotlight, so they passed the ball too much or b) didn't play as a team and played as individuals and lost because of it.

The cohesiveness that the Euro team has is stemmed from the fact that they DON'T want to be individuals, that their peice of the pie is part of the bigger picture. I saw a team that said without words that if they each played solid, they would win. They never referred to anyone on the team as the "Big Guns" at any time. (OK, maybe Mickelson, but that was tongue and cheek! ).

Solid play is what won the Ryder Cup. It's a format that is foreign to many Americans who grow up in a state of individualism that stems from day one. You strive to be YOUR best, not the Team's best.

I remember a big stink (I bet alot of you don't remember this, nor care, but I digress) that when Tammy Granato was cut from the US Women's Hockey Team, the furor and overwhelming grief that came from that was insane. She stated publicly that the team couldn't carry a tune without her and was doomed. How self centered is that? Wouldn't it be blatantly obvious that when the team went on to success shortly afterwards, that she was dead weight and had a terrible attitude (which was later revealed as to why she was cut, not her perfomance.)

This pedestal way of achieving more than your fellow man is heart and soul around the failures, in some ways, of Western society. It's no wonder it trickles down into these sorts of worldly focused events.

Until the US learns that a team is a team for a reason, they'll continue to lose in this format. Had they left Phil and Tiger at home, I doubt they would have been any worse off.

R35

 

[SiberianDVM]

Didn't one of the announcers suggest we field a team from the Nationwide Tour? Sounds good to me.

Maybe even drop down to the Hooters Tour: talented and still hungry golfers, beer, wings, and Hooters girls could do wonders for team spirit.

 

[emc]

Well the Nationwide Tour is better than European Tour after all....

 

[DaveE]

You know, it could just be that the depth of the European team is better the what the US can put together. There are afterall, only 5 Americans in the world top 20.

I'm sure there's something to the team spirit thing and I have no doubt that the Europeans relish beating up on the US boys. But, in the end the better team won a golf competition and that's pretty much it.

 

[Bravo]

Rock:

Part of your analysis about Americans and sports is correct and the other part is completely dead wrong.

Here is the part where you hit the spot: Young Americans in individual sports – golf and tennis are not team oriented. When a youngster shows a lot of promise in golf or tennis it is very common for their parents to remove them from team sports so they can focus on golf. The main goal is to get a college golf or tennis scholarship for their child. I have a neighbor who put his first two kids through Dartmouth this way and has a 3rd all ready to go. He will have saved over $300,000 on Ivy League educations for his children by focusing them exclusively on golf. So in this regard, these kids are not ‘team oriented’ at all.

The part you missed completely: Team sports dominate America both from a high school, college and professional standpoint. Take my high school. It has 900 students. There are 85 kids on the boys football team, 15 each on the boys and girls basketball team, 30 on the boys baseball team and 30 on the girls softball team. 35 on the boys lacrosse team and 20 on the girls volleyball team. Attendance at football games averages about 3500 and at basketball 800. Baseball would be about 400. Additionally because team sports have so many more players, there are vastly more athletic scholarships available to kids who play team sports vs. individual…therefore more parents emphasize team sports to their children than with golf/tennis as a way of getting athletic scholarships for them. I have seen plenty of kids get Division I football scholarships come out of my school and it is very academically rigid...so these parents are pushing their kids like hell to play TEAM sports.

From a fan standpoint, college football and basketball are actually larger than professional. The largest college football stadiums are larger than ALL NFL stadiums and the same applies in basketball. Alabama's stadium holds 92,000 and is located in a county with only a total population of 170,000. This stadium is larger than all NFL stadiums which are located in cities of several million or more people. This is all oriented toward team sports.

And of course the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball dominate professional sports.

So America is dominated by team sports, not the other way around. Professional golf is the only exception. Nobody in America is even interested in amateur golf from a spectator standpoint. Major college matches won’t draw more than a few hundred fans.

Now on to the second part of my post. Why do the Euros do so poorly in the Majors??

 

[JoshinWA]

The part you missed completely: Team sports dominate America both from a high school, college and professional standpoint. Take my high school. It has 900 students. There are 85 kids on the boys football team, 15 each on the boys and girls basketball team, 30 on the boys baseball team and 30 on the girls softball team. 35 on the boys lacrosse team and 20 on the girls volleyball team. Attendance at football games averages about 3500 and at basketball 800. Baseball would be about 400. Additionally because team sports have so many more players, there are vastly more athletic scholarships available to kids who play team sports vs. individual…therefore more parents emphasize team sports to their children than with golf/tennis as a way of getting athletic scholarships for them. I have seen plenty of kids get Division I football scholarships come out of my school and it is very academically rigid...so these parents are pushing their kids like hell to play TEAM sports.

From a fan standpoint, college football and basketball are actually larger than professional. The largest college football stadiums are larger than ALL NFL stadiums and the same applies in basketball. Alabama's stadium holds 92,000 and is located in a county with only a total population of 170,000. This stadium is larger than all NFL stadiums which are located in cities of several million or more people. This is all oriented toward team sports.

And of course the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball dominate professional sports.

And yet, when you see some of these professional athletes (Hello, Terrell Owens!) talking about the games they play, they rarely say things like "We played well as a team" or "I really let the team down with that dropped catch in the end-zone". Instead you hear how "I didn't get the ball enough". We do play team sports, as I did for many years growing up, but we still focus a whole lot on the best players, and groom them for success. This fosters an attitude of "play on a team, but still look out for number 1". I think that this has its place, especially where looking for scholarships comes, but maybe if everybody had a chance to go to a good school, competing for a sports scholarship by doing whatever it takes to be number 1 would fall a bit in priority? Maybe that is too "socialistic" of a view.

As for the format, I agree. I never saw anything resembling match play in JV golf at my high school, it was all team score. I think that the idea of two man best ball as match play, and even alternate shot, are great ways to teach golfers how to work as a team. It is certainly popular in business golf, which I play occasionally, to have best-ball or scramble formats, but we should still spend some time in match play tournaments. They seem great because if you get a snowman on one hole, you can leave it in the dust by paring the next hole if your competitor bogies. It really lets you forgive yourself for a poor hole. I am thinking that it might be a better way to teach golf to young players. Total score then becomes less important when first learning to play. At some point, especially if you want to play professionally it matters, but not when you are young. And maybe this kind of mentality would help the Americans. They are so used to beating the course that when they have some off holes, they are likely upset and don't give themselves a break...

Okay, enough rambling.

 

[LyleG]

DiMarco's fist pump when he made his putt, after he already knew his "team" lost, tells me exactly why the Americans cant win events like this. Its all about me baby.

 

[Rockford35]

And of course the NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball dominate professional sports.

B,

This is where you are wrong. IN THE US, NFL, NBA and MLB dominate. But on a world scale, soccer, cricket and rugby are much, much larger than all of those combined. All of which are determinant on a team aspect. None of them reward individuality, you must combine to excel in each respective game.

And in grass roots programs, especially in the US (we see ALOT of it here in Canada too), you see individuals carrying teams with personal goals and aspirations to get to the top levels - MLB, NBA, NFL. The fight for individuality and the almighty dollar are more of a drive than winning as a team.

See: Randy Moss, Alex Rodriguez, Terrell Owens, Sammy Sosa, Kobe Bryant, ect.

I doubt any of the above has made sacrifices for the betterment of their respective teams if it took away their limelight.

R35

 

[Rockford35]

Now on to the second part of my post. Why do the Euros do so poorly in the Majors??

I think it's the setup of the courses. I really think they're not used to playing on courses playing that way. Maybe not for guys like Donald, Ernie and the like that play over here almost exclusively, but I still think years of playing over on that side of the pond hasn't nurtured that confidence during that type of course setup.

Just a guess, obviously.

R35

 

[VtDivot]

B,

This is where you are wrong. IN THE US, NFL, NBA and MLB dominate. But on a world scale, soccer, cricket and rugby are much, much larger than all of those combined. All of which are determinant on a team aspect. None of them reward individuality, you must combine to excel in each respective game.

And in grass roots programs, especially in the US (we see ALOT of it here in Canada too), you see individuals carrying teams with personal goals and aspirations to get to the top levels - MLB, NBA, NFL. The fight for individuality and the almighty dollar are more of a drive than winning as a team.

See: Randy Moss, Alex Rodriguez, Terrell Owens, Sammy Sosa, Kobe Bryant, ect.

I doubt any of the above has made sacrifices for the betterment of their respective teams if it took away their limelight.

R35

Professional sports is still a business... for every A-Rod and T-O there is a group of owners making 50 times as much cash. Personally, I think the athletes need to look out for number one as much as possible.