Bravo's Indictment of US and Euro pros

[Rockford35]

Bravo,

Some comments that I plucked from David Ferhety's comments on a Dallas radio show..

"David is often on The Ticket, a sports radio station in Dallas. This past Monday, he was on with the morning show and had some great takes on the US failures.

He said that European players are measured by their Ryder Cup record. Not tour wins or majors, but Ryder cup record period. He thinks that the Ryder Cup is the most important event in golf to the Euro's. He went on to say that the American players are selfish, and have no TEAM, just players. He also said that American players would rather win a major than win the Ryder Cup.

David also brought up an interview with Tiger where a reporter was questioning his Ryder Cup record. Tiger politely replied with a question. "What was Jack Nicklaus' Ryder Cup record?" The reporter did not know and Tiger just smiled. David said that any golf reporter in Europe can name the records of European greats. "

I know Feherty can be taken with a grain of salt, but his points mirror mine almost to a tee...so I can't be that far off the mark with my points...

For what it's worth...

R35

 

[VtDivot]

He also said that American players would rather win a major than win the Ryder Cup.

David also brought up an interview with Tiger where a reporter was questioning his Ryder Cup record. Tiger politely replied with a question. "What was Jack Nicklaus' Ryder Cup record?"

True 'dat.

The boys just don't care about the Ryder cup, like they do a major, golf is an individual game to them once they finish college.

We're also missing the point that besides the whole team/buddies thing, the Euros had a better squad. I mean that's why they won, they won so convincingly maybe because of the unity, the home crowd motivation etc. But on paper, they were better, and prob would have won even if it was played at Augusta.

 

[Farquod]

You know, I heard a comment by Nobilo or someone else on TGC that referred to the fact that the Euros all have a very strong sense of country, and the pride of winning for that country.

And in reading this thread it got me to thinking...

They also like beating the Americans, because it shows that even the little guys can compete against the big ugly eagle.

How long has it been that the US has been the only remaining superpower? I think that, maybe, our decline in athletic performance on the world stage has paralleled the fall of Russia.

Nutz, whacko you say? Well maybe. Or maybe not.

Back in the day, we had to beat the Soviet bloc in everything we did, from the space program to the Olympics. They were all acceptable surrogates for annhiliation by nuclear (or nuc-you-lar, if you like, W) conflict. And back then, we were the good guys.

However, since the Berlin wall has fallen, we have had no major opponent on the world stage. Various factions have formed to gain a better competitive position against us, like the EU, and we are awaiting the maturation of China.

Smaller countries target us, as do disenfranchised interests. Doing so raises their recognition factor.

But in all, I think it's made us complacent, lazy, and self-centered as a culture. We don't have anything to prove as a country right now, so we don't really try THAT hard. And all of the effort is individual, for self gratification and glory.

That's why chefs and talentless rich girls are celebrities now. Who needs heroes? Creature comforts, baby, that's the name of the game.

Hell, I read that even Nicklaus said he'd have focused on winning more majors if he knew they were going to be so important. To his legacy, he meant to say.

To make it a little harder for Tiger to become "The greatest golfer of all time."

So yeah, even though this all came together just now, I don't think it's bullshit. Just think back to Miracle, and the US hockey team back in 1980 at the Oympics in Lake Placid. You think that would happen today? Could happen today?

No way, Josey.

 

[Rockford35]

Farq....I knew he'd be in on this sooner or later.

Josey? Are the Pussycats included?:biglol:

I once knew a guy named Jose Canseco...

r35

 

[VtDivot]

Farq....I knew he'd be in on this sooner or later.

Josey? Are the Pussycats included?:biglol:

I once knew a guy named Jose Canseco...

r35

How many times have I told you, those shots were B-12.....

 

[bames]

Consider the very people who founded the Americas - they were people with the guts and desire to leave home and try a new life (or drunken excuses for a cowboy seeking gold) but I believe that that very individualism is in our blood and that if originated from our ancestors with the will to make it on their own! Everything from golf to Mr. Roger's ("Don't you want to be MY neighbor") we are individualists at heart.

well, maybe Mr. Rogers is a stretch...

 

[dave.]

Its nothing really to do with any of that.The Euro team got it on,the US team didn't.Quite a few of your team came across as just spoil multi-millionaires that are so wraped in themselves they just couldn't be bothered with something like the RC.Mickelson is a great example,he just looked bored.

You also need a motivator,a talisman,someone to get fired up.The European tean have several,Monty,Garcis,Olazabal etc etc.

But maybe we are doing the US team an injustice.This RC was as much about Heather Clarke,cancer,and of course Darren,as it was about golf.To have played in front of an Irish crowd under those circumstances must have been incredibly difficult.Almost rude in fact to get so fired up,I just wonder how Tiger must have felt,how can you show respect and start pumping your fist in the air and shouting 'come on' all the time? The European team will have wanted to win for her as much as themselves.

I dunno,I am just talking out loud,but Tiger is a great man,full of emotion,and his concern for Clarke must have been more powerful than the Ryder Cup,it must have.To criticise Tiger under those circumstances seems bizarre.He is the youngest US player,won the most points,but just couldn't get the team fired up,for reasons I suggest above.

 

[bames]

I feel that the flood of athletes from other nations into all of the major sporting associations - PGA, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc - is going to play a major role in the dispersion of talent. Everyone knows - except for rugby players and marathon runners - that if you want to become the best, you need to play with the best, and that is right here ladies (both of you) and gentlemen. I think it is great that sports have an open door policy of "who cares where you are from - can you play!"

 

[Dave Ireland]

Ma tuppence worth ..

Tiger is the best golfer in the world by a country mile.

The overall standard of golfer is better on the European Tour.

Europeans had 8 golfers in worlds top 20, their position was attained by playing on a more competitive circuit - only 4 golfers have more than 1 win on the tour this year.

A Major is just another golf tounament where the golfing gods smile down on someone for a 4 day period ... Rich Beem, Ben Curtis, Todd Hamilton, Paul Lawrie ... it's just a moment in time, it signifies you were the best player for those 4 days, but doesn't bequeath greatness

Euro's have matchplay credentials .. in different guises the world matchplay champs have been won by Clarke, Casey, Montgomerie, Westwood with Harrington,McGinley & Garcia reaching the finals.

5 of the Euro's have also won on the USPGA Tour.

Finally ... taking out Woods, every American player would have an equally matched player ability wise from the Euro tour...

 

[IrishGolfer]

We all know that the Europeans have had problems closing out Majors over the past 5-10 years, (which I think will change over the next decade). Not sure why, but it hasn't gone all the US way though. Just look at the success of the Africans and Australians over this time. It's become a global stage.

So it is easy to say that the US have the best golfers in the world, they just don't play as a team. I somewhat disagree. I watched a DVD last night on Great Ryder Cups of the Past. The ones that the US won recently, PGA National and Brookline. Those guys acted as a team down the line. They (the team) were all present on 17 when Leonard holed THAT putt. They were all present on 18 when Wadkins hit THAT wedge. So there was TEAM spirit when they were winning. It just seems that when they are losing the team spirit evaporates. This doesn't happen on the European team. The guys would all still hang in for eachother, win, lose or draw. They would still feel part of the team, regardless of the result. Michelson's apparent lack of interest in a losing team typifies this.

There is a different attitude in Europe, better camaraderie week in week out. Its a cultural thing, seen by US when Euro players come to play in the US. This becomes more apparent in team events, even events like the Seve Trophy.

I also agree that the European team was just a stronger golfing unit than the US this year, based on rankings, tournaments won and RC experience. I think we all predicted a hammering in advance. It would have been a shock for US to have won this time round.

 

[Bravo]

I think it's the setup of the courses. I really think they're not used to playing on courses playing that way. Maybe not for guys like Donald, Ernie and the like that play over here almost exclusively, but I still think years of playing over on that side of the pond hasn't nurtured that confidence during that type of course setup.

Just a guess, obviously.

R35

Why don't they play better in The Open Championship then?

 

[Bravo]

Bravo,


He said that European players are measured by their Ryder Cup record. Not tour wins or majors, but Ryder cup record period. He thinks that the Ryder Cup is the most important event in golf to the Euro's. He went on to say that the American players are selfish, and have no TEAM, just players. He also said that American players would rather win a major than win the Ryder Cup.
R35

Well I respect Feherty highly. His blunt honestly is refreshing and he pulls no punches.

If he is indeed correct, then my estimation of the American performance will be tempered. Golf is an individual sport, and growing up with aspirations of turning professional, all of your "mindsets' are geared toward playing by yourself.

And Majors are one of the key litmus tests of greatness in a player's career.

So if Americans are more oriented toward individual play and winning Majors and Europeans are measured by winning the Ryder Cup - I can accept this. David certainly knows both sides of the pond as well as anyone in the world.

If I were a professional golfer, (I have to admit) I would be much more motivated to win a Major than the Ryder Cup. After all, golf is an individual game and the Ryder Cup was begun in the 1920's as a way to generate interest in golf. I am currently reading The Greatest Game Ever Played and seeing what happened in the first 30 years of the 20th century, with promoters in both the UK and the US trying to generate interest in the fledgling game, I understand the circumstances under which the tournament was begun.

I am glad that it was expanded to include Continental players to level it out as well....but if European professionals place more emphasis on this rather than winning a major - I think they've got their heads screwed on wrong.

Nothing against my Euro posters here obviously. I am speaking only to Feherty's comments about players on both sides.

 

[BigJim13]

Bravo,

Some comments that I plucked from David Ferhety's comments on a Dallas radio show..

"David is often on The Ticket, a sports radio station in Dallas. This past Monday, he was on with the morning show and had some great takes on the US failures.

He said that European players are measured by their Ryder Cup record. Not tour wins or majors, but Ryder cup record period. He thinks that the Ryder Cup is the most important event in golf to the Euro's. He went on to say that the American players are selfish, and have no TEAM, just players. He also said that American players would rather win a major than win the Ryder Cup.

David also brought up an interview with Tiger where a reporter was questioning his Ryder Cup record. Tiger politely replied with a question. "What was Jack Nicklaus' Ryder Cup record?" The reporter did not know and Tiger just smiled. David said that any golf reporter in Europe can name the records of European greats. "

I know Feherty can be taken with a grain of salt, but his points mirror mine almost to a tee...so I can't be that far off the mark with my points...

For what it's worth...

R35

I agree with this statement, otherwise how is it that Monty is considered one of the all time greats? No majors but several great years on the Euro tour and a stellar RC record. That being said, I couldnt put him in the class of Nicklaus and Tiger and dont think anybody else could either.

 

[Farquod]

Josey? Are the Pussycats included?

Dude, they were hot back in the day.....

I feel that the flood of athletes from other nations into all of the major sporting associations - PGA, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc - is going to play a major role in the dispersion of talent....

Another key point. Except to add that it already has played a major role.

 

[DaveE]

And Majors are one of the key litmus tests of greatness in a player's career.

If I were a professional golfer, (I have to admit) I would be much more motivated to win a Major than the Ryder Cup. After all, golf is an individual game and the Ryder Cup was begun in the 1920's as a way to generate interest in golf.

I agree completely. Regardless of how much importance some people want to put on the RC it's still an exhibition and as soon as it's over everyone goes back to trying win majors.

If the Americans ever figure out how to win 3 or 4 in a row the rest of the world will lose interest. It has as much to do with beating America as it does anything else.