Buying a new vehicle

[DaveE]

We have a 4Runner, definitley recommended, if you decide to go Toyota route. Our next car will prob be the Odyssey

Oh man, that sucks. :biglol: Thankfully even my wife couldn't stomach the idea of a minivan when the girls were young.

I've bought three fords from the same salesperson. Never any pressure and a simple approach. We start at invoice and take off any rebates that apply. I could probably find a better deal if I tried but I like his honest approach.

Not really surprising that he's the #1 Ford salesman in the state of TX.

 

[David Hillman]

Since slickpitt wanted pictures, and I like to start trouble ... have all you Tundra buyers seen the infamous bed-shake video?

YouTube - Silver Creek

Toyota is a carmaker, and I have owned and raced some of their cars... but they are still many years behind when it comes to building trucks. The Tundra is built like a tin can compared to an F150 that costs $10,000 less. Also, the media never covers them, but the Tundra has been subjected to recalls for serious brake, engine, and drivetrain problems. Google 'Tundra recall'.

I'm not a Ford guy or anything, my F150 is my first. That said, anyone who makes pronouncements like 'foreign cars are better made' is just not looking at enough data. There isn't that much difference between the companies, and they all make some lemons, and some great cars. JD Power says the most durable 'large car' in '05 was the Ford Crown Vic, better than the Avalon. The best midsize was the Buick Century ( 5 stars, Camry 4, Accord 3, Hyundais 3 and 2 ).

Ratings | J.D. Power

It's not as simplistic as some people make it out to be.

 

[FATC1TY]

My Ford F-150 FX4 is a rock. I've taken it through the brush, to the city parking deck(barely fits).

That bed shake is crazy looking.. I want to say I heard that Ford might have had to same issue at high speed from reading online once, but not positive.. It was only in a select few, and was more common among those with the "wheel shimmy" at high speed too.

 

[limpalong]

It's not as simplistic as some people make it out to be.

Probably one of the better statements to this discussion. A large percent of the Hyundais and Toyotas and Nissans seen on lots today are manufactured in the U.S. A number of GM and Chrysler plants are in Canada. Chrysler has plants in Mexico.

There's the story about a township who needed a new excavator. They got bids from John Deere and Komatsu. As the discussion began to focus on the Deere as "American made" something interesting came to light. The quoted Deere product was made by Hitachi and imported. The Komatsu was manufactured in the U.S. less than 500 miles from where the township meeting was being held.

No, "it's not as simplistic as some people make it out to be"!!!!!!

 

[warbirdlover]

I believe the big 3 are making decent cars. It's the customer service part that we were initially discussing. I have an old 2001 Mercury Sable I love.

American cars (IMHO) ride better then foreign and I like their interiors (seats) better. And I'm not surprised that the Japanese trucks aren't really made like Ford or Chevy trucks. They don't understand what we use them for probably... rop:

If the big 3 wises up they'll come out with warranties like Hyundai and kiss the customers butt more and they will then compete.

 

[EddieC]

Since slickpitt wanted pictures, and I like to start trouble ... have all you Tundra buyers seen the infamous bed-shake video?

YouTube - Silver Creek

Toyota is a carmaker, and I have owned and raced some of their cars... but they are still many years behind when it comes to building trucks. The Tundra is built like a tin can compared to an F150 that costs $10,000 less. Also, the media never covers them, but the Tundra has been subjected to recalls for serious brake, engine, and drivetrain problems. Google 'Tundra recall'.

I'm not a Ford guy or anything, my F150 is my first. That said, anyone who makes pronouncements like 'foreign cars are better made' is just not looking at enough data. There isn't that much difference between the companies, and they all make some lemons, and some great cars. JD Power says the most durable 'large car' in '05 was the Ford Crown Vic, better than the Avalon. The best midsize was the Buick Century ( 5 stars, Camry 4, Accord 3, Hyundais 3 and 2 ).

Ratings | J.D. Power

It's not as simplistic as some people make it out to be.

I have an 04 Tundra Double cab and the thing is awesome, best vehicle I've ever owned. When it got close to running out of warranty I really started looking at things to take it in for....but I found nothing, not a leak or a squeak. I googled "recall Ford F-150 just for fun and you'll find a lot more of those than you will for the Tundra. The Tundra, at least the 04, is solid.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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[MyBluC4]

Great story behid the Hyundai brand. When it first came to the U.S. the brand was a pure POS. The corporation made a commitment to be competitive and make it in the U.S. They went out and hired the top guy at JD Powers. They told him to re-engineer the cars, and keep doing so, until they could meet the JD Powers criteria for top qualit. He did, and now they have a top notch, high quality vehicle line. Just goes to show if the commitment is there and a high level quality benchmark can be defined, a competitve product can be put together. GM and Chrysler should take a lesson from these guys. Enjoy your new wheels.

 

[xamilo]

Korean cars have done a fantastic job now a days. Have never owned a Hyunday, but my GF owns a Kia and so does my mother. The HUGE warranty is just amazing. I can't believe she's almost about to trae in he ar and is still on waranty. aven't had to put a dime on the car since new, and now going for a new one. The top-line is lookin great as well. I have thiught about changingmy german for a Kia Opirus for example...

 

[David Hillman]

GM
and Chrysler should take a lesson from these guys.

I don't get why people slag off the domestic companies like this. It's not their fault that they've been held at gunpoint by Unions for years, and now their labor costs are double those of non-union plants in the US (nevermind being many times the overseas labor costs). Imagine what the Big 3 could do if you took all the money they have to spend on healthcare and pensions ( which are state-funded operations for much of their competition ) and gave it back to them.

Could your company survive in a similar position?

 

[Rockford35]

Korean cars have done a fantastic job now a days. Have never owned a Hyunday, but my GF owns a Kia and so does my mother. The HUGE warranty is just amazing. I can't believe she's almost about to trae in he ar and is still on waranty. aven't had to put a dime on the car since new, and now going for a new one. The top-line is lookin great as well. I have thiught about changingmy german for a Kia Opirus for example...

I won't personally ever buy a Kia based on some of the horror stories in regards to that 'huge warranty' and the local dealer. if you have a bumper to bumper warranty, you have to honour it, not just pick when you fix and when you don't.

Nothing against Kia, just the vibe I get from them from friends that have owned (the emphasis on "owned", past tense) Kia's and traded them in within 2 years.

R35

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

I don't get why people slag off the domestic companies like this. It's not their fault that they've been held at gunpoint by Unions for years, and now their labor costs are double those of non-union plants in the US (nevermind being many times the overseas labor costs). Imagine what the Big 3 could do if you took all the money they have to spend on healthcare and pensions ( which are state-funded operations for much of their competition ) and gave it back to them.

Could your company survive in a similar position?

Actually I would disagree, it was their own greed and own short cited behavior that put them in a position where they were forced to pay more to the workers. Had they not jacked up their rates in the 1980's to match the prices that the foreign automobile dealers were forced to charge to account for the Tariffs the Federal Government put on the Foreign car companies to try and throw the Big 3 a bone, they would not be in that position. This then immediately gave the UAW the power they needed to ask for more money to keep up with the increase in prices. It's simple economics. If you feel you can charge more for the product, it is only common sense that the workers who make the product should make more. The problem was their motivation was based on a poor decision, and it is their decisions that put them where they are now.

Most of the Foreign cars are now assembled in the US and they don't seem to have this issue. The problem is the Big 3 was to self absorbed in thinking they could charge the same for an equal product. Unfortunately they did not have an equal product and it turned into charging the same for an inferior product. Then for 20 years instead of admitting their wrong doing, they decide to try and market the whole "Buy American" marketing pitch. Only the American public was smart enough to see through this when the Big3 started sending jobs outside the US.

Not that I have any respect for the UAW or any unions for that matter, and they are now getting what they deserve for rather being unemployed than working for their real value, which you are right in that sense, is far more than they deserve.

However there is no one holding a gun to their head in forcing them to use Unioned worker either. They just need to be able to live with being unpopular. There is no justification that they can't find non-union worker that are just as qualified, or if that is true they need to explain why they think the people in Mexico are just as qualified. Probably the reason I have so much faith in Foreign cars, I know they are more likely assembled by qualified people (in the USA).

Again though, they made their bed long before as a result of their greed. Had they kept their prices where they were instead of trying to crap on the American public in raising their prices to more than what they were worth, they would not have given the unions the bartering chip to demand an equally overpriced salary. Unfortunately as I mentioned earlier, they where to self absorbed to admit they had an inferior product.

Edit 1 - Kinda like the entire private jet debacle. That is just a bad decision they had to live with, and instead of admitting such, they tried to use American jobs as an excuse to try and get people to overlook their poor decision making. If you hire stupid people with no common sense to make your decision for the direction of the company, then you just have to live with the consequences. ... or ask for a handout for being stupid.

Kinda seems like asking me to feel sorry for American Oil companies if they go belly up in 20 years. I am going to point back to this point in history when they screwed the American Public because their greed motivated them to charge the same as foreign producers. Although the difference is they even have an equal product.

 

[mddubya]

All the car companies are greedy. Remember back a few months ago, when gas was $4.00 a gallon? You could buy a Nissan, fully loaded crew cab truck for $17,000.00. That's a vehicle with a list price of $34,000.00. Do you really think they were taking a loss on each one they sold? Not a chance, I imagine they were still making a little money off each one. If not they were at least breaking even and trying to keep the plant open. And the Big 3 were doing the same thing, as was Toyota.

I'm not saying every vehicle in their line ups has that much mark up, but that showed me right there that the top of the line ones do. I'm sorry, but to me, doubling your money on each truck or SUV you sell is a bit outlandish.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

All the car companies are greedy. Remember back a few months ago, when gas was $4.00 a gallon? You could buy a Nissan, fully loaded crew cab truck for $17,000.00. That's a vehicle with a list price of $34,000.00. Do you really think they were taking a loss on each one they sold? Not a chance, I imagine they were still making a little money off each one. If not they were at least breaking even and trying to keep the plant open. And the Big 3 were doing the same thing, as was Toyota.

I'm not saying every vehicle in their line ups has that much mark up, but that showed me right there that the top of the line ones do. I'm sorry, but to me, doubling your money on each truck or SUV you sell is a bit outlandish.

Kinda funny how what they did in the last couple weeks. Now the Big 3 is trying to get the Fuel taxes increased to spark the market for people to buy a new vehicle with better gas mileage or Hybrids. Yeah, that is really looking out for your customers. It's O.K. for them to pay more for the sake of boosting your sales. Again, another poor choice of practice to sell your product. See that the same people you consider your customer are basically screwed into buying your product. If they had any principles they would understand that anyone with principles would not buy their product for that reason. They are simply motivated by greed, and simply assume their customers have the same motivation.

edit 1 - Here we go:
Automakers talk of stabilizing the price of gas - 2009 Detroit auto show- msnbc.com
Great move Sherlock. Gotta find someone else to blame, now it is the Government for trying to ease the pain of the current economics by stabilizing the gas prices at a rate that is not suitable to the Big 3 being able to sell cars. Gotta have stable prices, and since they were really high before, that is where we should concentrate on stabilizing them.

To me that is just an insane strategy to try and restore the publics faith in your company and product. Maybe they should design more fuel efficient Lear Jets so as not to make their executives suffer if this goes through, otherwise they may have to raise their prices to account for the increased fuel prices in delivering both their executives asking for handouts, as well as their product.

 

[David Hillman]

Had they not jacked up their rates in the 1980's
to match the prices that the foreign automobile dealers were forced to
charge to account for the Tariffs the Federal Government put on the
Foreign car companies to try and throw the Big 3 a bone, they would
not be in that position.

Your premise does not appear to be supported by facts.

Yes, new car prices rose in the eighties. It was during that time that carmakers were forced to invest huge sums developing new technology to meet new emmissions, efficiency, and safety laws.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Your premise does not appear to be supported by facts.

Yes, new car prices rose in the eighties. It was during that time that carmakers were forced to invest huge sums developing new technology to meet new emmissions, efficiency, and safety laws.

Actually, I am not sure the CPI would be an accurate judge for the facts that I stated in all honesty. My comments were in regards to what happened in the 1980's, and more specifically your gauge by the CPI is not in relation to the Big 3, but new cars in general. Are you not aware of what transpired in the 80's when the Tariffs were placed. So, does your research include foreign cars, Tariffs, and such? Your diagram is pretty vague if you want my honest opinion. I actually do not even see how it relates to what I mentioned. My comments were in relation to International Trade Policies in the US, no how prices went up in relation to inflation. The separations lies in how the Big 3 reacted by raising their prices to equal that established with the Tariffs imposed by the US Government. Your chart is in relation to both. Do the prices compare to Gas and every day economy? I have no clue, and that was not the premise of what I mentioned. What part of that diagram relates to the comparison of US and Foreign prices?

In all honesty, had that diagram gone on a downward spiral it would still not relate to what I said. They equaled the prices of Foreign Builders, with in my opinion a inferior product.