Complete rip off

[William Tipton]

So the last couple years Ive got the unlimited 7 day membership to the muni courses here in town.
It goes from April 1 this year til last day of March next year meaning my pass doesnt expire until end of March.
This year they were talking trash about raising prices but a lot of us just flat out told them we'd go somewhere else if they did. My pass was $1100 for the year. I can get a pass from a course right down the road here for $1050. Just called them today to confirm and its the same deal. Unlimited greens fees for the year.

What the city courses did this year was change next years pass from April thru March to Jan 1 to Jan 1.
At first it didnt register how this just screwed us over, but once I got home it hit me that they are shorting us 3 entire months next year because when I pay FULL price for the 2014 pass it'll overlap January - March of my existing pass...and it'll expire 3 full months earlier than it would have if they hadnt changed it.

I called the main lady who talks directly to city counsel and I was just acting stupid about the whole thing and she admitted that they changed the dates for 'financial purposes'.
Huh...I wonder what that could have been ? Maybe shorting us 3 months on our memberships?
After she said it she shut up really quick and started playing dumb herself, which made me think she realized she probably said something she shouldnt have.
Ive talked to a other people who are in the know and there is ZERO reason for them to have changed the dates on the membership like this.
What it ends up doing is all of us who have current passes get shorted 3 months and then I'll bet money they raise the membership price next year like they were trying to do this year.

I got in a full 170+ rounds this year. Well over $3000 worth of play, so to her Im sure it SEEMS like I got a deal. But I tried to explain to this idiot that I ONLY play that much because its 'unlimited'. Id prefer they keep the price the same and maybe LIMIT the damned thing to 3 rounds a week if its that big a damned issue.
Raising the price....or screwing us out of THREE damned months is only going to piss us members off so we end up going somewhere else next year.
This woman doesnt comprehend that Im not paying more than I'd pay elsewhere under ANY circumstances. If the going average for this area is $1000 or so, thats all Im willing to pay and all the other members Ive talked to have said the same thing.

She tried three times now to pretend like they really dont need to sell the memberships. Thats fine because Thornapple is closer to my house and is cheaper for the year already. So if you dont need my money I'll go elsewhere and do it with a smile.
But every other course manager/pro that Ive talked to for the city courses has practically begged me to buy the membership at their course this year and said this woman is a moron and that they DO need to sell these memberships.

Ive heard there are around 200 members, which I find to be a little low given the size of this city, but even if that is true the average membership cost would be about $1200. That is about $240,000 for the year. She expects me to believe that the city DOESNT CARE if $240,000 walks out the door down to the next course? Somehow I seriously doubt that is the case and Im going to call the gents who run the entire system tomorrow and ask some questions and 'accidentally' mention this ladies remarks and see what they say about it.

What I think is SHE is pushing for a price increase because she doesnt like us members showing up on Saturday mornings to HER course and not having to pay individually for a round...which obviously makes her sales look lower. She flat out told me that she doesnt like having to honor memberships on the weekends, especially the cart memberships that get a cart included. I think she figures if the price is raised fewer people will buy them membership and she'll fill those slots with paying customers.
The fix to it would simply be for members to have to wait until noon on weekends to play if shes having that big an issue with it.

Seriously considering buying my membership elsewhere next time.

 

[BigJim13]

You could move to Vermont. Here we pay for a full year membership but only play for 6 months, the other 6 months we use the course for sliding.

$1100 for 170 rounds works out to roughly $6.50/rd. I see your point, but financials drive everything these days. Clubs (and businesses) have to do what they can to stay profitable. If it bothers you that much and the quality is similar at the other course, go there. But don't be surprised when they make a similar business decision to stay open.

 

[TrickyPutt]

My muni is under price pressure as well. I heard they lost 40g last go round. 17000 18 hole rounds. Thats 2/3 the rounds of a nicer state park course nearby thats under pressure in a similar way. I see It as the result of lowered tax revenues making the governments squawk. That may pass as revenues return over time. Most states for example wont see this years full revenue until taxes come in what could be as late as oct of 2014. They had a problem with drop off in rounds at the muni with the city dictated increases so the pro came with some discounts.

The pro at the muni asked me to be on the board of directors for the course. Probably because the Mayor and the council member in charge of the course were two of the girls in my supper club. So im thinking how to be most effective from that position. Sort of how to effect positive change without spending more money.

I was out sticking a PH meter in the greens to help identify the source of some spotting on the greens. I figure the cheapest way to ensure play is keep the greens in good shape. The muni doesnt have a good greens guy right now since the last one left. Seems like the grass cutters want to move up. But get this, Burmuda likes a PH of 5.8 to 6.2. When I measured the greens they were struggling but alive at 6.5-6.8 and the dead spots measured 7.0. Its using ammonium sulphate fertilizer to drop the PH and solve the problem. But nobody there could conceive of googling it up they way I did. Thats the real problem with running that business efficiently.

When I was telling the pro what I had found, he mentioned the new greens guy wanted to overseed the practice green with winter rye to solve the problem. Now I gotta get up at 4am to go have a chat with that dude when nobody is around because he may be one of those thats firmly entrenched in his own thinking. Another guy there knows all about PH also. Only thing is when he was talkin he had the PH scale backward. I dont think it will be his area.

 

[BigJim13]

One thing to look at if your considering joining or staying with a club is debt. If the club/muni carries allot of debt, either from operating costs or renovations, than eventually prices will be going up. When rounds drop and revenue drops the debt payments don't.

Actually that's good advice for any walk of life. If you are looking to take a job with a company that has a lot of debt, well buyer beware. Many cities, towns and local governments took it on the chin in this last downturn. Unfunded liability is a phrase you will hear a lot of.

 

[BigJim13]

I realize now that my last post was a bit if a tangent, I won't delete but feel free to disregard.

 

[TrickyPutt]

Your inner banker just jumps out sometimes doesn't it?

 

[William Tipton]

You could move to Vermont. Here we pay for a full year membership but only play for 6 months, the other 6 months we use the course for sliding.

$1100 for 170 rounds works out to roughly $6.50/rd. I see your point, but financials drive everything these days. Clubs (and businesses) have to do what they can to stay profitable. If it bothers you that much and the quality is similar at the other course, go there. But don't be surprised when they make a similar business decision to stay open.

The price per round isnt really relevant. They made the thing unlimited and so it doesnt really fit into the equation because whether Im there once a week or 6 times a week doesnt really matter because they dont let me make a tee time..I have to slide into other groups and at least one day they wouldnt get me on at all at three different courses.

I heard them using the logic that we're only paying so much per round but that is a very silly argument because THEY decided to make the membership unlimited. As I said, the LOGICAL resolution is to limit the membership to a number of rounds per week, not raise the price because every member Ive talked to has said they simply will go somewhere else if the price is raised.
Also, and again, other courses around here, Thornapple for one...National Trail for second...are actually cheaper for their unlimited membership prices, so I do not buy that its a cost per round that Im paying...or an overall cost of the membership itself...that is the issue.

The woman in question believes that golf revolves around her and Ive talked to a number of the pros at the other courses who really do not like her at all but she seems to have a lot of say with city counsel for some reason.
The other pros told the city counsel that the price is at a breaking point and raising it was a bad idea but this woman is so determined to keep members off HER course on weekend mornings that apparently shes willing to sabotage the entire system to get her way.

Last year I guess she threw a real tantrum to get the new sand at HER course before the other courses. And you have to understand that at least two other courses are in much better condition and are in much more expensive areas in town. Her course should have been on the low end of the list, but her course just happens to be the most frequented city course solely because of location, so she gets her way on many things.

The think about profits is that muni courses arent supposed to be about making money but about the same thing city parks are about....making things available to the citizens. Some of these courses actually lose money every year and yet they keep them open because at the end of the year I believe the books are still in the black for the courses as a whole.

 

[William Tipton]

I realize now that my last post was a bit if a tangent, I won't delete but feel free to disregard.

 

[BigJim13]

Your inner banker just jumps out sometimes doesn't it?

Yeah it does!

 

[BigJim13]

The cost per round is relevant though. If you only played 10 rounds per year you wouldn't spend $1100 to join.

The point I was trying to make is that while munis may have been able to operate in the past at a loss that most likely will no longer be able to happen.

It sounds like a few of their policies need to be reviewed.

 

[William Tipton]

Another point here is that golf isnt food....or gas...or rent.
Golf is something we do just because we feel like we want to do it.
Telling me that I HAVE to pay $5 for a gallon of gas...well we have to get to work so I have no choice.
But I DO have a choice to just not golf at all...or only play once a month...or twice a season. Its not something I have to do.
It doesnt seem logical or reasonable to run off paying customers in something that they dont HAVE to do to begin with.
I only go out for sushi with the wife twice a year or so because we spend about $80 or more when we go and neither of us is big spenders.
It'll be the same with golf. I have a certain budget I allow for golf and once that budget is spent, thats it, Im done.
So raising the price of a membership doesnt get more money out of someone like me...it puts me in the position of simply giving up playing golf...or only going out a couple times a year.

Is it wiser to sell me a membership for $1100 for a year.....or to make me quit playing so much so that Im only paying for $100 of golf over and entire season?

Seems sensible that getting the $1100 would be the better choice....money in the bank. And then if its a problem that I show up on saturday morning and dont pay for the round to maybe just limit my pass to after noon on weekends or something.
Raising the price and running off paying customers in my mind is the foolish route. Limiting the membership in some way that make it less of an intrusion on paying customers time seems more logical.

 

[TrickyPutt]

It sounds like a few of their policies need to be reviewed.

Yeah like making the mistake of giving me seat on a board.

 

[BigJim13]

Another point here is that golf isnt food....or gas...or rent.
Golf is something we do just because we feel like we want to do it.
Telling me that I HAVE to pay $5 for a gallon of gas...well we have to get to work so I have no choice.
But I DO have a choice to just not golf at all...or only play once a month...or twice a season. Its not something I have to do.
It doesnt seem logical or reasonable to run off paying customers in something that they dont HAVE to do to begin with.
I only go out for sushi with the wife twice a year or so because we spend about $80 or more when we go and neither of us is big spenders.
It'll be the same with golf. I have a certain budget I allow for golf and once that budget is spent, thats it, Im done.
So raising the price of a membership doesnt get more money out of someone like me...it puts me in the position of simply giving up playing golf...or only going out a couple times a year.

Is it wiser to sell me a membership for $1100 for a year.....or to make me quit playing so much so that Im only paying for $100 of golf over and entire season?

Seems sensible that getting the $1100 would be the better choice....money in the bank. And then if its a problem that I show up on saturday morning and dont pay for the round to maybe just limit my pass to after noon on weekends or something.
Raising the price and running off paying customers in my mind is the foolish route. Limiting the membership in some way that make it less of an intrusion on paying customers time seems more logical.

I guess I missed where your rates were going up. I get they changed when the year began and ended, but is it not still $1100? So you can still play 170 rounds for $6.50 per right?

 

[William Tipton]

The cost per round is relevant though. If you only played 10 rounds per year you wouldn't spend $1100 to join.

How rounds do you play in a season?
The ONLY reason I played so much is solely because the membership is 'unlimited'.
If Id had to pay individually I'd have been playing about 2 rounds a month at most by now and likely would have simply packed the clubs away out of disinterest.
The price per round isnt relevant because we simply wont play that much if we paying per round.
This is exactly the point we're trying to get this woman to comprehend.
They wont sell me 170 rounds of golf next year without the pass, Jim....they'll sell me the same $1100 worth at most...and likely less since Id be able to play non muni courses, and likely would since the guys I play with dont like the city courses and want me to play elsewhere...ie take my money somewhere else, which Id likely do if I dont have the membership.

Seriously, the price per round isnt relevant to this issue.
I understand how it seems like it may, but honestly it doesnt. We simply wont buy the membership if the overall price goes up.
This isnt like buying a product where they have to account for every piece manufactured. This is me sliding in with a threesome who will go out as a threesome if Im there or not.
If they provided me with a caddy cost free...or followed me around fixing my divots, then maybe.

The point I was trying to make is that while munis may have been able to operate in the past at a loss that most likely will no longer be able to happen.

Raising the price and running off paying customers isnt going to get them any more into the black.

As I explained above if the price goes up we stop buying the membership.
This means I take my money to another course for a membership....OR...I dont buy a membership at all and I just use the money to pay per round at other courses since now I have a choice to play elsewhere since Im not tied to the city courses alone.

It sounds like a few of their policies need to be reviewed.

I tried to tell them that the solution to the weekend thing was simply to tell members that they had to wait until noon to play.
Most of us would be fine with it, I know I am anyway, and most of the members Ive talked to are fine with some restrictions, but none of them are willing to pay a higher price.

Lets say my golf budget is $100 a month. Im not paying one single dime more than that under any circumstances.
Raising the membership price just put me out of buying it...so I'll just play less and since there are a hundred courses within driving distance of my place here, I'll most likely take most of that $100 to courses other than the city courses.
It just doesnt make sense to run us off rather than finding some way to restrict the membership so we're not interfering with weekend mornings....know what I mean

 

[azgreg]

Here in Phoenix it's $50 a year for a city card that is good for discounted rates and longer advance for tee times at all 5 city courses.