Course Design Irritations

[SilverUberXeno]

I don't like courses that punish a GOOD shot.

For example:

1.) Green Lakes State Park; Central New York

* This state park was actually a prison camp during WWII, so when you play the back, you can legitimately say "This place was built by f***ing Nazis; it really was. Nearly EVERY hole is a severe hill, or valley, or side-hill fairway. A drive that lands dead center in the fairway will most often vault itself into trouble. Aim up either side and put a little center-turn on it, and she'll run just the same into crap. It's a brutal course with plush fairways (since no one is ever on them.)

2.) The Links at Sunset Ridge; Mattydale, NY
* I love this course, but one hole in particular is just diabolical... It's a par 4 that requires a 240-260ish shot off the tee to lay up to a ravine, which sits rouchly 70 feet above the green, which happens to be a hard right from where the landing zone is in reference to the tee-box. The green is way below you, and it slopes VICIOUSLY left (from the landing area) and backwards into the ravine. It's entirely possible any wedge shot will just hit and roll way off the green.

SHOULD you be lucky enough to get caught in the fringe like I was (only inches in, too!) you are left with what looks like a simple chip. 15 feet, slight (or so it appears) right to left break. Aim 5 feet high because the greens are fast and chip softly...

Wait 45 seconds, as the ball just keeps rolling and rolling until it's 40 feet down the slope.

Putt it 36 feet back up to the hole

Wait 45 more seconds.

Putt again.

F***!!!!

 

[millrivermem]

Something else I don't like is postage stamp sized greens. You watch the PGA & the courses those guys play have massive greens, some appear to be 10,000 sq ft. Hell of alot easier to get GIR on one of those compared to a 400 sq ft one. 1 course near me has very very small greens & a lot of them are elevated. It's a challenging course but it's also a very discouraging course at the same time. Between the tiny greens, all the blind 2nd shots, the water, trees trees & more trees, it's not a fun course to play unless you are at the absolute top of your game.

think about this though man....50 yard putt? like the british open....how do u seriously have a chance for a two putt?

 

[mddubya]

I don't like courses that punish a GOOD shot.

For example:

1.) Green Lakes State Park; Central New York

* This state park was actually a prison camp during WWII, so when you play the back, you can legitimately say "This place was built by f***ing Nazis; it really was. Nearly EVERY hole is a severe hill, or valley, or side-hill fairway. A drive that lands dead center in the fairway will most often vault itself into trouble. Aim up either side and put a little center-turn on it, and she'll run just the same into crap. It's a brutal course with plush fairways (since no one is ever on them.)

2.) The Links at Sunset Ridge; Mattydale, NY
* I love this course, but one hole in particular is just diabolical... It's a par 4 that requires a 240-260ish shot off the tee to lay up to a ravine, which sits rouchly 70 feet above the green, which happens to be a hard right from where the landing zone is in reference to the tee-box. The green is way below you, and it slopes VICIOUSLY left (from the landing area) and backwards into the ravine. It's entirely possible any wedge shot will just hit and roll way off the green.

SHOULD you be lucky enough to get caught in the fringe like I was (only inches in, too!) you are left with what looks like a simple chip. 15 feet, slight (or so it appears) right to left break. Aim 5 feet high because the greens are fast and chip softly...

Wait 45 seconds, as the ball just keeps rolling and rolling until it's 40 feet down the slope.

Putt it 36 feet back up to the hole

Wait 45 more seconds.

Putt again.

F***!!!!

Damn, that does sound brutal. What is par on this course? 100?

 

[floggerrushmd]

Originally growing up playing the game in PA I am used to the sloping fairways that never seem to hold a ball. The only good news is you get really good at hitting the ball out of the rough. I almost feel at a loss when I am in the fairway anymore. heheh...

As for the postage stamp greens - courses need to add dificulty in some way otherwise they are no fun. No one wants to play a course where all the par 4s are 300 yds or less, and the par 3s are no more than a wedge with huge greens and no bunkers. I think that postage stamp greens have their place it is on short courses, and possibly par 5s. I like the idea of either a very small or severely undulating green on a par 5. It makes the hole that much more interesting and gives you that much more to consider when thinking, "Do I lay up or go for it?"

That being said I do not think that you should ever be able to putt off of a green unless you hit a bad putt. Case and point of this pearl of wisdom comes on #16 at Highland Country Club in Pgh PA. There is a nasty ridge that runs through the center of this green, and feeds balls towards the front and left side of the green where a green side bunker is waiting to collect them. The greenskeeper must be experiencing permanent PMS because the grass is almost always mowed to the level of the putting green all the way into the bunker. I have hit some very good putts that have ended up in the bunker on that hole. I have even had it happen several times in a row when I hit the putt said, "I am going to try that again," hit the putt again and ended up within two inches of my previous ball in the bunker. It is just wrong to have a green do that to you.

 

[gunning4u]

Something else I don't like is postage stamp sized greens. You watch the PGA & the courses those guys play have massive greens, some appear to be 10,000 sq ft. Hell of alot easier to get GIR on one of those compared to a 400 sq ft one. 1 course near me has very very small greens & a lot of them are elevated. It's a challenging course but it's also a very discouraging course at the same time. Between the tiny greens, all the blind 2nd shots, the water, trees trees & more trees, it's not a fun course to play unless you are at the absolute top of your game.

SOUNDS LIKE FUN.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

There was really nowhere I could've hit that ball to end up within 10 feet of the hole on the vicious slope green. I could've stopped it 15 feet above maybe, but then I'd be in the same boat on the putt. In fact, my partner breathed on his and it went 10 feet past the hole. I don't know how it even stopped where it did.

 

[soxngolf]

How about a women's perspective on this, maybe more course set up than design:

1. Put some ball washers and water at the front few tees, we always have to walk back to the men's, which can be really annoying on par 5s.

2. Pay attention where you place the forward tees, don't just place them closer. Is the ground uneven, are they even pointing in the direction of the fairway?

3. On the score card, give the slope for women from all the tees. I often play the whites, it would be nice to have the correct course rating.

4. Give more tees at shorter distances. The average woman drives the ball 150 yards! (and let's be honest there are some men around this distance too) They should have the option of playing a course around 4500 yards. Most front tees are between 5000 to 5500. To some women that is like playing from the tips for the average male golfer.

5. While we are discussing tees in general...I think all courses should be set up letting the golfer know by their handicap and average 5 iron what tees they should be playing. No more, "women's tees." All golfers should play their appropriate tees. How many times have I seen a group of guys playing the blues when they can't hit their drives past the reds?

 

[cwo2lt]

How about a women's perspective on this, maybe more course set up than design:

1. Put some ball washers and water at the front few tees, we always have to walk back to the men's, which can be really annoying on par 5s.

2. Pay attention where you place the forward tees, don't just place them closer. Is the ground uneven, are they even pointing in the direction of the fairway?

3. On the score card, give the slope for women from all the tees. I often play the whites, it would be nice to have the correct course rating.

4. Give more tees at shorter distances. The average woman drives the ball 150 yards! (and let's be honest there are some men around this distance too) They should have the option of playing a course around 4500 yards. Most front tees are between 5000 to 5500. To some women that is like playing from the tips for the average male golfer.

5. While we are discussing tees in general...I think all courses should be set up letting the golfer know by their handicap and average 5 iron what tees they should be playing. No more, "women's tees." All golfers should play their appropriate tees. How many times have I seen a group of guys playing the blues when they can't hit their drives past the reds?

I agree with all your points. Some courses are set up to treat women as 2nd class citizens. The back tees are very nice with yardage markers set in them while the forward tees are just a mown area somewhere "down there". Disgraceful if you ask me.

Your 5th point is a very good one considering the baby boomers are getting shorter off the tee.

 

[cwo2lt]

I don't think a course should be designed with the first hole as the #1 handicap hole.

 

[Wi-Golfer]

4. Give more tees at shorter distances. The average woman drives the ball 150 yards! (and let's be honest there are some men around this distance too)

Good luck ever getting one to admit it though.