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Do you really do Hogan?

cypressperch

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2006
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Toledo Bend Lake, Louisiana
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United States United States
There is no doubt about Hogan having a great

golf mind, and his writing has given us a really great reference into his insights. Concerning grip, I think John Jacobs has some pretty sound advice. You start with Hogan or Jacobs or whomever you want to develop a good grip. Then you start hitting shots, and you notice the ball flight with those shots. You rotate the grip a little to the strong side if your ball has too much left to right curvature (slice). When the ball starts to go straight, or a little fade, or a little draw (whatever you want personally), you have found your grip. If you are going left or right of where you intend to hit the ball, you now start to work on your alinement and other variables.

We have different tempos, body types, physical strength, flexibility, posture, clubs, golf balls, hand size, arm size, etc, etc, etc. There is no one grip that is going to be the exact grip needed by all the different individuals playing this game. You follow the general guide-lines for a good grip, then by trial and error, you arrive at THE GRIP THAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. Besides those above variables, what about how flat or upright your swing might be?

Grip has a big say about the swing. If you try to duplicate Hogan's or anyother person's grip exactly, you will probably have to follow the rest of his ideas just as exactly. It is a set of ideas, a set of ideas that with an unbelievable work ethic allowed Hogan to do great things. Some might argue that there might be an easier set of ideas for regular golfers to follow that would get them to acceptable golf quicker and easier. First thing that comes to mind, a fairly strong grip will probably make for better control of the club from start to finish for a large majority of golfers.

Someone that looks like Craig Stadler would probably be wise to use Craig as a model. If you look like a Hogan, use Hogan as your model. But having said this, I would still experiment with my grip because physical appearance is just one of many variables. You think John Daily is your man? Good luck trying to replicate that turn!

CP:)
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
And the next point,about losey losey arms.You can still get into Hogan's arm position without tension,you will some athleticism there,but no tension,but it takes real practice and efort to work at it.Nothing in Hogan's book is easy.You have to rally work at getting in these positions and takes months of hard work to bed them in.

You make an excellent point. The Hogan video you posted a while back was an example of the most fluid and relaxed looking swing I've ever seen. As you say, it took him a trmendous amount of work to get there. My comment about loose arms meant only this - the ideal swing is one in which the clubhead is delivered correctly on the ball with the least possible tension. Hogan knew this, and he knew it wasn't easy.
 
OP
dave.

dave.

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Mar 20, 2005
5,926
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Yeah,its incredibly difficult to genuinely open up the inside of your forearms and elbow without being tense at the same time,very very hard,but once you crack it you can really whip the wrms through,Goosen being a great example.

But I genuinely believe to much is made of Hogan's grip being 'weak'.It wasn't weak to him,it was the perfect grip to deliver the face square,remember,he hit very very hard with both hands,he smacked the ball from waste high as hard as he could,it was the only point in the swing he had any concept of hands playing a part,try and do that with a strong grip!

Hogan had a truly superb grip,and I will argue one small and insignificant arguement.Its not that his grip is to weak for most players,its that most players are to weak to use it,they simly do not generate the clubhead speed he did,and on plane.
 

usa1950

Divots like a 72 Playboy
Jul 15, 2007
599
0
Weak grip....will promote a fade.

Yeah, I get that.... but my left hand is definitely on the strong side, and I still fade the ball 95% of the time. Clubhead path has a lot to do with it as well, of course, but I can't imagine playing with a weak left hand grip (photos already posted not necessarily that of a real grip, as previously mentioned)
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
Yeah, I get that.... but my left hand is definitely on the strong side, and I still fade the ball 95% of the time. Clubhead path has a lot to do with it as well, of course, but I can't imagine playing with a weak left hand grip (photos already posted not necessarily that of a real grip, as previously mentioned)


Thats just a swing fault at that point. A weak grip with a solid clubpath will "promote" a fade and help against going left, whereas stronger grips are to "help" to turn the ball over a little more.

Stronger grips are also recommended for newer players who have more problems turning the clubface over through the ball to help straightening it out.

I'm guna work on the turning the insides of the elbows up without tensing up, cuz with the swing changes i'm working on the fade is coming back, and when I can start re-weakening my grip again without worries of slicing the hell outta the ball, then I can really start on hitting the gentle fade with a weak grip (ala- Hogan taking the left side outta play).
 

usa1950

Divots like a 72 Playboy
Jul 15, 2007
599
0
Thats just a swing fault at that point. A weak grip with a solid clubpath will "promote" a fade and help against going left, whereas stronger grips are to "help" to turn the ball over a little more.

Stronger grips are also recommended for newer players who have more problems turning the clubface over through the ball to help straightening it out.

I'm guna work on the turning the insides of the elbows up without tensing up, cuz with the swing changes i'm working on the fade is coming back, and when I can start re-weakening my grip again without worries of slicing the hell outta the ball, then I can really start on hitting the gentle fade with a weak grip (ala- Hogan taking the left side outta play).

Hmmm.... Played 9 today. Two birdies, two bogies. 5 Pars. Even. I think I'll stick keep my swing faults, lol. Admittedly, it was not the BEST course in the area (there is a photo of it in the Google Earth Photo thread on the PICTURES Board - my long drive photo) but even par is even par.
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
I had the same round yesterday usa- but 3 of each and for 18 holes.

But im still fixing my swing. even par isnt good enough.
 

usa1950

Divots like a 72 Playboy
Jul 15, 2007
599
0
I had the same round yesterday usa- but 3 of each and for 18 holes.

But im still fixing my swing. even par isnt good enough.

Until you get a wife, and three kids, and a mortgage, and play about 10 times per year.... then it sure as hell is... LOL. :laugh:

Cheers. Bryan
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
Until you get a wife, and three kids, and a mortgage, and play about 10 times per year.... then it sure as hell is... LOL. :laugh:

Cheers. Bryan


Well, by that time I should be consistently playing on the PGA, so for ME it wont do then either;)

I guess if im on tour I probly won't have that mortgage either;)

For now still, even par wont do.
 
OP
dave.

dave.

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Mar 20, 2005
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SP

the key is the 'whip'.Hogan squared the face because it came around so fast because of all the lag,the arms just whipped through at a real rate,its one of the reasons why I don't like a lot of the one plane stuff on the web.Imo,that technique requires a concious thought to really turn the body hard and then deliberatley fire down from the top,a deliberate cast if you like.

With Hogan arms,you really need to waggleout the tension and let your arms come through fast,you knwo you get it wrong and hit from the top when they come down to early and you ahve a truncated follow through.Get the timing right the arms come through and square the face,hence why you can't have a stong grip and swing like Hogan,you would be firing eveything left
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
Ok thx dave.

Think I could get a breakdown of the "Hogan swing" from you? You seem to know more about it than anyone. As Tiger says, who best to imitate then the best ballstriker of alltime?
 

IrishGolfer

Fac ut gaudeam
Supporting Member
Sep 1, 2004
6,401
4,809
Oh Dave

This little post completely bolloxed me up on Saturday. I was hitting major hooks trying Ben's gig.

Funny thing is I shot a +5 (77 / 36 points) and still got 0.1 back. Our course playing like a pitch and putt. No wind, forward tees etc.

I went from the "Best Ball Striker on the Planet" last week to "Best Ball Bender" this week. Hogan, my ass!

THANKS Dave!

FOOL (messin' with my mind!)
 

Farquod

Short Game Tragedy
Mar 8, 2005
1,165
0
Mmmm. The barefoot guy from one of the BBs (maybe 2) set his arms this way. I still think it's overstatement on Hogan's part, particularly the way he shows the arms lashed together in 5 Lessons. I think he's just trying to keep you feeling connected.

To CPs point, big guys like Stadler could not emulate this move.

It is one of the teaching points that Dalton McCrary stole, tho. ;)
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
SP

the key is the 'whip'.Hogan squared the face because it came around so fast because of all the lag,the arms just whipped through at a real rate,its one of the reasons why I don't like a lot of the one plane stuff on the web.

This is such an excellent point. Time and again I hear the phrase "use the big muscles". Yes. But the ball is hit with the hands. Hogan knew this. My best shots are when I simplify the big muscle moves and simply turn my hands through the impact area. It's almost as if the hands drive the swing, and the hips/torso/shoulders just add to the force applied to the ball.

Clubhead lag, and proper hand motion (simplified by a proper grip). Hit the ball hard.
 
OP
dave.

dave.

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Mar 20, 2005
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Farquod

That is the whole point of my thread,imo he wasn't over cooking the arms taped togetehr picture. I used to think that but when my bak went recently and all I could do is practice,I decided to go full on into that book.First thing was the grip,then I had to get the insides of myarms ppointing outwrds and with the help from a pro I realised why (you don't deloft it this position because your arms just set naturally by rotating square and the shaft is bang on plane)

Get into this position at address and you really do need a lot of practice time though,thats one of the draw backs of Hogan's book, and why some of the modern stuff like the one plane alligaor arms and swing with the big muscle stuff workits because hey have successfuly found Hogan in a quick fix I am not dissing these theories,I love the one plane teory although I don;t ike parts of Hardy (hit from the top) but the more I practice the more I realise they have tried to find something that doesn't need hours of practice.But pu the time in and you will reap the benefits
 

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