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Englishmen at #1 and #2 in the World - thoughts?

IrishGolfer

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So Donald overtook Westwood as World #1 this weekend. At the BMW tournamant being played in Wentworth, the top two players in the field both came out on top of the pack, with Donald prevailing in the play-off.

So Westwood for the second time relinguishes the top slot, this time to Donald. But I am wondering if people are as quick to write him off again, as they did the last time. I got the feeling that people don't see him as genuine #1 material.

As for Donald, there is no doubting his consistency, in fact it is incredible. But neither Donald nor Westwood have yet won a Major, so do they merit their top two berths?

Here's a good peice I came across about Donald.
======

All those who’ve had sand kicked in their faces must be standing tall this morning. All those golfing traditionalists who thought the classic swing had gone the way of the persimmon wood must have a song in their hearts.

Let’s hear it for England’s veritable David in the land of the big-hitting Goliaths. Let’s hear it for Luke Donald, who finds himself perched this morning on the shoulders of giants, the game’s latest No 1.

Who saw this coming? Certainly not those golf coaches who teach youngsters to swing the club as fast as they can and don’t worry about where it’s going — we’ll sort that out later.

It’s five years now since I had dinner with Tiger Woods’s then coach Hank Haney and he couldn’t have been more disparaging about Donald. Here was the gist: how can he expect to compete against players like Tiger who belt the ball 30 yards past him on every hole?

Multiply that by 14 and add about 10 yards for each of the four short holes and that effectively makes each course over 450 yards longer for Donald. To be fair to Hank: how do you compete?

Donald not only competes but overcomes by adopting the philosophy of the European he most resembles. Bernhard Langer punched miles above his weight because he never understood the meaning of not being able to compete. Countless times, he said: you find a way, you find a way.

Donald found a way by toughening up mentally. A wife and baby daughter stopped him obsessing about what he didn’t have and added perspective. He found a way by becoming the best bunker player since Ernie Els in his prime. He found a way by becoming the best putter since Woods used to hole everything. Have I mentioned what he’s like from 100 yards? Yes, he’s as good as anyone at that shot as well.

When John McLaren took over as his caddie 18 months ago I asked him what was the first thing that struck him about Donald. ‘God, he works hard,’ he said.

By my rough calculations, Donald (right) has earned close to £1million a month over the last seven months in finishing only once outside the top 10 in his last 15 tournaments.
Think about that for a moment: he’s played in Asia, America and Europe but it’s made no difference. Whatever the place, whatever the length of the course, he has been in contention in every event he has played bar one.

It’s the two wins in the Accenture Match Play and at Wentworth on Sunday that are priceless, of course, and leave all England thinking about him, Lee Westwood, Ian Poulter and the rest and wondering whether this is the summer when it finally gets to see a major champion again, after 15 years of waiting.

Still, this isn’t the morning to ruminate on the only thing missing. This is about celebrating an old-fashioned sporting hero, a man who swings the club with an elegance and grace we thought belonged to the past. A man who was supposed to be out of time, with a game that had no place in the broad-shouldered, gorilla-bashing version of the sport in the 21st century.

Now we know. There’s always a place for the man who finds a way. There’s always a place for a man with a picture-perfect technique, and that’s on the leaderboard every week, not every now and then. Now a new chant has made its way to the forefront of the lexicon of British sport: ‘Luuuuke.’

Congratulations, No 1.
 

VtDivot

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Donald is solid. A much better player under pressure than Westwood IMO
 

warbirdlover

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Agree on Donald being #1. Westwood is NOT #2!

I don't agree on the way the system works. It should be HEAVILY weighted to those who have won majors. That is the true test of being able to play golf under pressure. In a weighted system maybe Phil M would be #1. But none of this matters. Tiger will soon come out of his slump and dominate everyone again... :thumbs up:
 

floggerrushmd

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I feel that they rating system should be weighted differently, but the weight should be a factor of the ranking of players in the field each given week. Forget the prestige of the tournament, if the field is stronger at the Memorial or WGC than the Masters then the win at the Memorial is worth more plain and simple. If you beat the best of the best you have to be considered the best. Luke Donald has shown that he is consistently one of the best players in the world, and more consistently playing at that level than any other player at the current time. He deserves the accolade of being the #1 golfer in the world. Now do I feel he is so far superior to those players at the top of the leader board that he will remain there for a long time. NO. He is good, but he is not the dominant player that Tiger was in his prime, and quite honestly there isn't anyone on tour that is that way right now which is awesome. Right now Luke has the game that everyone else would kill for and that makes him #1. Next week who knows??
 
OP
IrishGolfer

IrishGolfer

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I f He is good, but he is not the dominant player that Tiger was in his prime, and quite honestly there isn't anyone on tour that is that way right now which is awesome. Right now Luke has the game that everyone else would kill for and that makes him #1. Next week who knows??

Totally agreed and the ranking points back it up. When Tiger was at his most dominant there was a clear stretch between him and #2. So much so that it took the best part of two years to knock him off his top spot, even though he was clearly not performing. Now the gap between #1 and #10 is not huge. However let's not forget Westwood's perfrmance over the last few months has been equally as impressive as Donalds. He won in Indonesia, at the Ballentines and came 2nd at the BMW.

Oh and I agree regarding Major winners. They do get a greater weighting on rankings> I wonder if Westwood or Donald will be in the mix for the next two majors, methinks yes!
 

shep3470

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Agree on Donald being #1. Westwood is NOT #2!

I don't agree on the way the system works. It should be HEAVILY weighted to those who have won majors. That is the true test of being able to play golf under pressure. In a weighted system maybe Phil M would be #1. But none of this matters. Tiger will soon come out of his slump and dominate everyone again... :thumbs up:

So are you saying Charl Schwartzel and Louis Oosthuizen should be near the top of the rankings?
 

BigJim13

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This is a snapshot of what golf will look like without Tiger. There is NO CLEAR BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD with Tiger being gone. What we DO have is a few guys that are really freakin' good and we will have a musical chairs at the world #1 slot. Donald, Westwood, Kaymer, Schwarzel-they are all the same in my mind. Good, in some cases good enough to win a major maybe 2 in the future but by no means dominant. My guess is that Donald will be gone from the #1 spot in a month-maybe 6 weeks depending on how he does at the US Open.
 

Wi-Golfer

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I feel that they rating system should be weighted differently, but the weight should be a factor of the ranking of players in the field each given week. Forget the prestige of the tournament, if the field is stronger at the Memorial or WGC than the Masters then the win at the Memorial is worth more plain and simple.

Well stated and couldn't agree more.
 

nututhugame

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Luke Donald is currently playing far and away much better golf than any American... that's for sure. And really... currently the only other person who is consistantly playing as good of golf as Donald or Westwood is Monessero. I think all is as it should be at this moment. Donald and Westwood need some majors to put the stamp on their careers though.
 

xamilo

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This is a snapshot of what golf will look like without Tiger. There is NO CLEAR BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD with Tiger being gone. What we DO have is a few guys that are really freakin' good and we will have a musical chairs at the world #1 slot. Donald, Westwood, Kaymer, Schwarzel-they are all the same in my mind. Good, in some cases good enough to win a major maybe 2 in the future but by no means dominant. My guess is that Donald will be gone from the #1 spot in a month-maybe 6 weeks depending on how he does at the US Open.

Different subject which we have already covered, but, let's think the system started today, again, from scratch, no points for anyone, no previous Mayor wins, etc. Let's say Tiger was still in his prime time, or better, he was 26 again in his prime time. Do you think he will still be "far ahead" as the best player in the world, or maybe all these new great players would keep him a little bit "behind"?

In my opinion, if Tiger had started playing today, he definitely be No 1 in the world, but we would be talking about 7-8 Mayors, not 14, and by no chance, a possibility to break Jack's record...
 

dave.

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Donald is playing some of the best golf I've ever seen, forget rankings, just look at his control of the ball. Mickelson is one of my favourite players, but I've got bored of him trying to batter courses to death, Donald controls trajectory in almost Hoganesque style. Mickelson should take a leaf from that book.

Plus Donalds short game is just stupid, defies belief. He is more deserving of the number 1 than any fluke major winner. When Harrington won 3 majors in as many years he got nowhere number 1, deservedly so, he wasn't consistent.

Westwood I think has peaked, we've yet to see the best from Donald

I got 16/1 on Donald for the US.
 

BigJim13

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Xam, I think you give to much credit to this group of young players. What have they done to earn that? Sure you can throw out Kaymer and Gmac, but Kaymer has yet to be heard from this year and Gmac is streaky. Rory choked away the Masters and after that are there any wins?

You forget just how dominant Tiger was when he was winning. He won the US Open by 12 shots and effectively de spined (not sure if that's a word) most of the guys on tour.

FWIW I like Donald and his game alot and would like to see him win a major. He and Westwood both have a tendency to wilt in majors though.
 

dave.

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I've had to take a year off, I never really recovered from frozen shoulder and the weight piled on due to living in hotels with work. I've now got my weight back down to 13 stone and got fit again. My back is still bad but I'm not going private to have an op on my disc.

So.....I'm playing again, gingerly:)

I'm in good nick otherwise, back in the golf forums. If I can't play, I hate reading forums.

Thanks for asking:)
 

warbirdlover

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So are you saying Charl Schwartzel and Louis Oosthuizen should be near the top of the rankings?

shep3470

No. They've only won one major and nothing else.

The rankings should require a minimum number of wins and a minimum number of major wins. How long ago these wins occured etc etc

I'm only trying to make a point and not develop a new ranking system. :thumbs up:
 

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