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GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE BS

warbirdlover

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Okay, I hear this stuff every day but being an old fart I've lived a lot of years in the state of Wisconsin. I remember in the 50's to 80's being very hot in the summer and a lot more snow in the winter (except when I owned a snowmobile). There is no difference in the number of tornadoes from back then to now. This year it's been cool and beautiful in Wisconsin. Plenty of rain and most days in the 70's and 80's. I call BS on this whole Global Climate Change topic. And no one back then paid any attention if there was a chunk of ice breaking off in Antartica. Cripes, in the 30's Kansas was a dust bowl. There's lot's of money being made off this BS and that usually is what drives everything now days. Greed and a total disregard for "what's right". What say you?
 

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Grumpy Gilmore
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I'm confused. You said the climate is different now than it was in the past, but you don't believe it has changed?
 
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warbirdlover

warbirdlover

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Where did I say it was different? In any case it's not. I meant it was hotter in the old days and if there was global warming it would be hotter now. I think over the years it just cycles and the cyles repeat themselves. There is no change.
 

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Grumpy Gilmore
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Where did I say it was different? In any case it's not. I meant it was hotter in the old days and if there was global warming it would be hotter now. I think over the years it just cycles and the cyles repeat themselves. There is no change.

I read the below statement as "there was more snow back then" as if it doesn't snow as much now.
I remember in the 50's to 80's being very hot in the summer and a lot more snow in the winter (except when I owned a snowmobile).
Regardless, you're talking about weather, not climate. The global temperature of the ocean has risen considerably, hence the melting icebergs of Antarctica as you mentioned. As for "no one cared" if that happened, that's part of the reason the global temperature is higher now than it was "back then."

"Back then" people ate bacon and eggs and steak for breakfast and smoked cigarettes, and painted their houses with lead. Now everyone has cancer. Weird, right?

The climate has changed over hundreds or even thousands of years and you've been here for a minute. Just because you can't see the overall scale, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I trust the scientists studying this. They're pretty smart and study climate for a living. I don't think anyone on here does.
 
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warbirdlover

warbirdlover

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They don't have a clue how it was even back in 50's. How would they possibly know before that?
 

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Grumpy Gilmore
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They don't have a clue how it was even back in 50's. How would they possibly know before that?
Ice core samples are the biggest teller, they can look at the atmospheric conditions captured in ice going back millions of years. Earth core samples, tree core samples, excavation, geography, fossils... the entire Earth's history is locked in rocks, ice, and mud. All we have to do is look beyond ourselves.
 

eclark53520

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There's more than just 'is climate changing'.

Yes, climate is changing. Climate has been changing constantly since the very beginning of the solar system and this planet's creation. Long before ice core samples were created. Plus, ice cores can tell us things about this planet, however, they can't tell us a damn thing about what that big ball of fire in the sky is doing. Nor does the past climate of the earth give us any real way to predict the future of the sun. A small change in output of the sun could kill us all in relatively short period of time.

Even if we have ice cores nailed and we could predict the earth's atmosphere perfectly(which we can't) with those ice cores for 100 million years(which we only really have 800k to a million years worth of data in ice cores). That's still a literal blip in the climate of earth over it's entire life. So to believe we have a solid grasp on earth's overall climate is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

Then the question is 'Do humans have a significant impact on the climate and how it is changing?'. My personal belief, not nearly as much as we humans think we do. The calculations necessary to predict future climate have so many variables it's ridiculous. Not to mention if we're off by a micro-percentage on some of our assumptions in those calculations, it can mean massive differences in the results of the future predictions.

Then the next question, if you do believe that humans have any significant impact on the climate of the earth, is 'Do you believe the human caused climate change means doom for our species?' It's easy to say, yes we're all going to die, but we really don't know. There are plenty of theories that ground that is currently useless for farming may become available if the earth's temp rises a few degrees. Certain deserts may become lush forest, etc.

On top of that, the question is, do you believe that at our current population and energy requirements, do you believe there is any real way we can make a difference? People aren't going to give up their energy requirements. Personal EV's aren't the short term answer considering our current energy production distribution(coal/ng). I'm not even sure of the long term viability considering the amount of mining we have to do with large diesel equipment to provide the necessary components to build batteries. Around here the only ground available for solar is good crop fields and I'm pretty sure we're going to need to eat. Then the wind turbines have their own significant issue considering the relatively short lifespan of the blades we have to eventually dispose of. Nuclear seems to be off the table for a significant portion of the population, and admittedly it has some significant drawbacks to humans as well.
 

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Grumpy Gilmore
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which we only really have 800k to a million years worth of data in ice cores). That's still a literal blip in the climate of earth over it's entire life. So to believe we have a solid grasp on earth's overall climate is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
This was my point, to a larger extent, about comparing weather today to weather of the 1950s. But we agree, a million years is a blink of an eye in this planet's life.

Then the question is 'Do humans have a significant impact on the climate and how it is changing?'. My personal belief, not nearly as much as we humans think we do.
I say yes in the short-term. As you've stated, over the entire history of the planet humans don't even close to natural events. However, we weren't here for those and had zero control over them. We're here now and simply writing our impact off as insignificant (not that you did) is irresponsible, and we do have control over how much we contribute to the climate changing. A volcano does some pretty big damage, but we can't control that... ever seen the air in Beijing or Mexico City? We did that.

Then the wind turbines have their own significant issue considering the relatively short lifespan of the blades we have to eventually dispose of
To be fair, at least some of the material is recyclable. I don't know the exact number but it's not zero.

I think that was a well thought out response that made many good points and counter-points. Thanks Glark.
 

eclark53520

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Yeah, if the answer was easy, it wouldn't be a big issue.

I just don't think raising taxes or artificially manipulating the current energy market to push tech that isn't economically feasible is the answer to human caused climate change(if it truly exists). That's what annoys me about this whole situation. There's a certain group of people that are using this as a way to push whatever their political agendas are. I don't think some(most) really honestly care about the planet, it's just a way to scare the population into doing things they want them to do.

I don't want to get overly political, but unfortunately this issue has been politicized by those in power as a way to control people.

Kind of like some of the 'we have to do something' measures implemented over covid. Like using a tray at the drive through window...I put money in the tray, the same tray they used for the last 1000 cars, they take the money out of the tray, put my food on the tray and hand it out to me. How exactly is that saving anyone from anything? It's laughable. Then, when you say "That's ridiculous, there's no benefit in that system", you're labeled a science denier.

I'm not saying all changes made for covid were pointless...but there were a LOT of them that were. Same with climate change. Some of the suggestions or even laws that are put in place don't even make sense. It's like you can make a law for anything, claim it helps with climate change, and no matter what, anyone that disagrees is a science denier. That's not helping anything.


So, in the end, even though I don't necessarily believe we have the means to predict the climate with any great accuracy, I do believe we humans could do better when it comes to man made pollution in many regards, not just greenhouse gas emissions. I just don't necessarily agree with the HOW in many cases. We need to do things that make logical sense and don't cause us even more issues down the road. Not just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. In my opinion of course.

I've seen too many times where the 'we have to do something' overreaction of humans causes more problems than it solved. For example we introduce a non-native species to an environment, it causes a problem and because "we have to do something" about it, we introduce another species to solve that problem. Well, that one causes an even bigger problem, and on we go. Instead of just stopping and cutting our losses, we double down on it and make it worse. We're not good at predicting unintended consequences.
 

Pa Jayhawk

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Gotta love where I knew this conversation would go from the the start. lol

Are eggs really bad for you if you eat them in moderation? Is margarine still good for you?

I own a gas golf cart that I have probably put 70-80 gallons of gas into in 11 years,. Is that worst than the fossil fuels in owning an electric cart where I would probably have used 18 batteries in the same, and having to charge it year round including the 4 months I don't golf? I replaced the 1 battery in my cart once.

I own an SUV that gets about 25 mpg, and drive it about 2000 miles per year. Do the fossil fuels for keeping and charging an electric vehicle make me a better person? lol

Science is ever changing. Farming is bad for your health, they fed a tractor to a mouse and it died.
 

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Grumpy Gilmore
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Gotta love where I knew this conversation would go from the the start. lol

Are eggs really bad for you if you eat them in moderation? Is margarine still good for you?

I own a gas golf cart that I have probably put 70-80 gallons of gas into in 11 years,. Is that worst than the fossil fuels in owning an electric cart where I would probably have used 18 batteries in the same, and having to charge it year round including the 4 months I don't golf? I replaced the 1 battery in my cart once.

I own an SUV that gets about 25 mpg, and drive it about 2000 miles per year. Do the fossil fuels for keeping and charging an electric vehicle make me a better person? lol

Science is ever changing. Farming is bad for your health, they fed a tractor to a mouse and it died.
I was not prepared for that ending 😂
 

xamilo

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As someone who had never experienced an over 40C temperature in Sydney Australia, having had the last two summers in Sydney over 45C and full of smoke due to the wild forest fires I’d differ about the “weather not changing”
 

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