Golf strategy

[ualtim]

My current 5W would put me about....160 out, could be less if I miss it. That leaves me with a good niner in, but out of danger for most water shots.

Thats a bit different game than some us play. I would need driver up the right side to even think about having 160 yards in from the white tees which is why my strategy is so much different than yours. Distance really changes the strategy of the hole. If I could knock it 250 with my 4W and drive it 280 with my driver my strategy would be totally different. If I was hitting a 9 iron from 160, my comfort zone would extend further back down the fairway and I would be more comfortable from 200 or so yards out and have a better GIR.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

For me it all starts with evaluating the possibility for penalties. So to the OP, it may be beneficial to not necessarily evaluate the "Golf hole from tee to green" as you mention, but instead evaluate it from "Green to Tee".

Instantly I saw a hole that for me is fairly long and the probability of even wanting to go for the green in two would be dependent upon conditions of not only my first shot but the wind and such. If you evaluate it from tee to green you say, O.K., if I blast my first down the center I can get home in two. When I go from green to tee, I know I would not want to hit a wood into that green because of the risks involved around the green. Couple that with a head wind, and there is basically very little chance I would go for that green in two. So now I know that even with a good tee shot there is a very big probability I will lay up if it is a headwing. Knowing the effect a headwind has on spin, I know the chance my driver, while consistent still many times has more spin than most clubs, will even find the fairway is in question. If I don't find the fairway, there is no way in heck I would be going for that green. Chance are likely 95% of the time I will not go for that green in two with a headwind. So for me I pick the club I am most confident with in keeping straight and in the Fairway, which is my 7w. In other words, why risk a penalty off the tee, when in fact there is little chance you will benefit from the added distance. Where for some, it could be a matter that their driver is the most logical choice because it may be a more consistent club and stay out of the wind because it is also the least lofted.

Above all, evaluate avoiding penalties and the rest will likely come natural as you learn to recognize your strengths by not taking driver on every hole, and not necessarily going for a green that while you know you can likely reach, offers very little when you know you quite possibly won't finish on the green and could result in penalty about 1/3 of the time.

Find a distance for an approach that is most reliable and give serious though to the chance of you walking away with a par or even bogie on a tough hole by laying up, as opposed to facing a triple bogie when you try and kill one off the tee because that is the only way you will possibly get home in two, get frustrated when you lie 2 or 3 where you could have lied 1 with a safe club, then plunk one in the water to try and save face and hit 6 to the green and pray for a 1 putt. If any of that even vaguely went through your mind in evaluating your game, it is time to go back to the bag.

 

[DisKoDucK]

Thats a bit different game than some us play. I would need driver up the right side to even think about having 160 yards in from the white tees which is why my strategy is so much different than yours. Distance really changes the strategy of the hole. If I could knock it 250 with my 4W and drive it 280 with my driver my strategy would be totally different. If I was hitting a 9 iron from 160, my comfort zone would extend further back down the fairway and I would be more comfortable from 200 or so yards out and have a better GIR.

Sorry, how about one more hole to help me get some more ideas.
Your Source for Exceptional Golf

I'll give you my plan and you can tell me if there's anything else I should consider.

I would leave my driver in my bag because of my tendency to be wild with it, and since the landing area in the 230 yard range isn't that big, I don't even consider it. I would then hit my 190-200yard hybrid, which would leave me short of the bunker.

then I'd play a 4 iron which goes about 170 yards for me over everything, which puts the bunkers in play, but I don't want to be in the water.. That's basically all I can think of. Oh. I also have a tendency to hit my long irons fat, so I might aim right of the water, as opposed to over the water.

 

[JEFF4i]

If you have a problem with going right, try and use a club that would put you about 150 out, and short of the bunkers and most water.

From there, just go for the meat of the green if you need it in 2, giving yourself the most leniancy for a miss. If anything, aim right-center.

 

[ualtim]

Sorry, how about one more hole to help me get some more ideas.
Your Source for Exceptional Golf

I'll give you my plan and you can tell me if there's anything else I should consider.

I would leave my driver in my bag because of my tendency to be wild with it, and since the landing area in the 230 yard range isn't that big, I don't even consider it. I would then hit my 190-200yard hybrid, which would leave me short of the bunker.

then I'd play a 4 iron which goes about 170 yards for me over everything, which puts the bunkers in play, but I don't want to be in the water.. That's basically all I can think of. Oh. I also have a tendency to hit my long irons fat, so I might aim right of the water, as opposed to over the water.

Looking at the hole, I notice an optional white tee box so my strategy would differ depending on which tee box was in play.

Using the back tee box, a 4-wood down the right side of the fairway would leave me well short of the right fairway bunker and leave a good line into the green where I would probably play my second shot favoring the right center portion of green to minimize the damage on a mishit.

Using the forward white tee box location, I would most likely take my driver down the right center of the fairway to get me closer in to the hole and increase my chance of GIR with a shorter iron approach shot. It brings the water on the left into play but the fairway starts to widen out again at 237 from the tee which will widen the landing area for where my driver shot should be landing and hopefully leave me with a 50* wedge in my hand for the second shot. With the 50* wedge, the water is not in play on the second shot unless I really mishit it.

Your strategy sounds fine from the forward white tee (circle). With your tendancy to mishit your long irons fat you may want to play for the right side of the fairway. Your not going to reach the bunker and the right side would leave you a safety area short if you hit your 4 iron fat. On the back white tee (square) you should be able to get away with the driver or at least the longest fairway wood in your bag. If you are really down on your driving, you can play this like a short par 5 and take a fairway wood off the tee down the left side. Second shot to the wide landing area beyond the bunkers to the right side of the fairway to your most comfortable distance range (like the 100 yard marker). Third shot to the center of the green, two putts and a bogey. If your having troubles breaking 90, sometimes it is smarter to play bogey as par on the tougher holes.

 

[DisKoDucK]

For me it all starts with evaluating the possibility for penalties. So to the OP, it may be beneficial to not necessarily evaluate the "Golf hole from tee to green" as you mention, but instead evaluate it from "Green to Tee".

Instantly I saw a hole that for me is fairly long and the probability of even wanting to go for the green in two would be dependent upon conditions of not only my first shot but the wind and such. If you evaluate it from tee to green you say, O.K., if I blast my first down the center I can get home in two. When I go from green to tee, I know I would not want to hit a wood into that green because of the risks involved around the green. Couple that with a head wind, and there is basically very little chance I would go for that green in two. So now I know that even with a good tee shot there is a very big probability I will lay up if it is a headwing. Knowing the effect a headwind has on spin, I know the chance my driver, while consistent still many times has more spin than most clubs, will even find the fairway is in question. If I don't find the fairway, there is no way in heck I would be going for that green. Chance are likely 95% of the time I will not go for that green in two with a headwind. So for me I pick the club I am most confident with in keeping straight and in the Fairway, which is my 7w. In other words, why risk a penalty off the tee, when in fact there is little chance you will benefit from the added distance. Where for some, it could be a matter that their driver is the most logical choice because it may be a more consistent club and stay out of the wind because it is also the least lofted.

Above all, evaluate avoiding penalties and the rest will likely come natural as you learn to recognize your strengths by not taking driver on every hole, and not necessarily going for a green that while you know you can likely reach, offers very little when you know you quite possibly won't finish on the green and could result in penalty about 1/3 of the time.

Find a distance for an approach that is most reliable and give serious though to the chance of you walking away with a par or even bogie on a tough hole by laying up, as opposed to facing a triple bogie when you try and kill one off the tee because that is the only way you will possibly get home in two, get frustrated when you lie 2 or 3 where you could have lied 1 with a safe club, then plunk one in the water to try and save face and hit 6 to the green and pray for a 1 putt. If any of that even vaguely went through your mind in evaluating your game, it is time to go back to the bag.

It's funny, I think it makes complete sense. But it isn't natural for me to think from green to tee just yet. I'm going to try to explore this idea a bit more...

 

[ualtim]

It's funny, I think it makes complete sense. But it isn't natural for me to think from green to tee just yet. I'm going to try to explore this idea a bit more...

Yes, working backwards helps. For me, if I can get the ball 100 yards from the center of the green on my approach shot I am very happy. I am still quite comfortable through about 150 yards out. OK from 160 yards out. 170 yards out and longer is where my percentage of GIR really falls off so it essentially becomes a center of the green thing or even a layup if there is trouble all around the green and no safe area to play to. From there, I then start thinking tee to green to see what club will hook me up to my preferred approach zone landing area. Once I get beyond my driving length, strategy shifts again.

It sounds more complicated than it really is.

1) Find your optimal place to make your appraoch shot into the green.

2)Take a club that will get you to that approach zone off the tee.

3) If you can not hit your longest club to the optimal approach zone, create a tee strategy that will keep you out of trouble and give you an approach shot that will leave you outs if you mishit it.

4) If it is going to require two perfect shots to accomplish the above, start to think about adding an additional shot into the planning to avoid trouble off the tee and then get you into your optimal approach zone.

Of course, its really easy to sit here and say it, its another to actually follow my own advice. :laugh: I get more upset at myself for poor strategy than for poor shot performance. When I go against my own preferred strategy and screw it up with a bad shot, I consider it a preventable error.

 

[DisKoDucK]

Yes, working backwards helps. For me, if I can get the ball 100 yards from the center of the green on my approach shot I am very happy. I am still quite comfortable through about 150 yards out. OK from 160 yards out. 170 yards out and longer is where my percentage of GIR really falls off so it essentially becomes a center of the green thing or even a layup if there is trouble all around the green and no safe area to play to. From there, I then start thinking tee to green to see what club will hook me up to my preferred approach zone landing area. Once I get beyond my driving length, strategy shifts again.

It sounds more complicated than it really is.

1) Find your optimal place to make your appraoch shot into the green.

2)Take a club that will get you to that approach zone off the tee.

3) If you can not hit your longest club to the optimal approach zone, create a tee strategy that will keep you out of trouble and give you an approach shot that will leave you outs if you mishit it.

4) If it is going to require two perfect shots to accomplish the above, start to think about adding an additional shot into the planning to avoid trouble off the tee and then get you into your optimal approach zone.

Of course, its really easy to sit here and say it, its another to actually follow my own advice. :laugh: I get more upset at myself for poor strategy than for poor shot performance. When I go against my own preferred strategy and screw it up with a bad shot, I consider it a preventable error.

The first two definitely make sense. I think for the 3rd point, you mean hit my tee shot so even if I am 180 yards out, then I can hit my next shot so I have lots of outs should I make a mistake (I think that's what I interpret from that)

As for point #4. Say I hit my longest club and I'm still 230 yards out (more than any club I have in my bag), then just plan for two more shots?

Gotcha, I'll work with those ideas... thanks.

 

[ualtim]

The first two definitely make sense. I think for the 3rd point, you mean hit my tee shot so even if I am 180 yards out, then I can hit my next shot so I have lots of outs should I make a mistake (I think that's what I interpret from that)

As for point #4. Say I hit my longest club and I'm still 230 yards out (more than any club I have in my bag), then just plan for two more shots?

Gotcha, I'll work with those ideas... thanks.

Correct on point #3. Hit a safe tee shot that does not get into your preferred approach zone but leaves you an approach shot where you can miss it and still be safe. It does not necessarily mean driver - long iron, it can be hybrid-hybrid or eaven long iron-hybrid depending on where the trouble is.

On point #4, not necessarily. What I mean by two perfect shots is that if you can't reach your ideal approach zone and the appraoch shot you can reach green with has no outs and requires a perfect shot into the green and/or in order to reach even that spot you need a perfect drive or perfect fairway or perfect hybrid; you may want to add a shot. Obviously, if the distance is so great that you can not reach it hitting driver-fairway wood you need to add a shot. But lets say the less than ideal approach shot is going to require you to hit a perfect shot into the green and a perfect shot to reach that spot: the chance of a golfer like myself pulling off two perfect shots in a row is highly unlikely regardless of the club in my hands. Sometimes I can live with having to make one near perfect shot (risk vs. reward) on a hole to make it work, but having to make back to back perfect shots is next to impossible unless I am playing in the zone and am having a good round. If I have room to miss on both the tee shot and approach shot, I will attempt it almost all the time. Once I start boxing myself in with having to perform one or two near perfect shots in a row, its time to start re-adjusting my strategy to include an extra shot.

It can be very difficult to actually do this out on the course, but chances are I will score better hitting 3 fairly safe shots than having to hit 2 difficult shots in a row or put myself into a location that has zero margin for error.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Of course, its really easy to sit here and say it, its another to actually follow my own advice. :laugh: I get more upset at myself for poor strategy than for poor shot performance. When I go against my own preferred strategy and screw it up with a bad shot, I consider it a preventable error.

It can be very difficult to actually do this out on the course, but chances are I will score better hitting 3 fairly safe shots than having to hit 2 difficult shots in a row or put myself into a location that has zero margin for error.

I think one of the most difficult and frustrating mental issues I have ever encountered or had to overcome in golf, and run into it on a regular basis because of my shot natural shot ability (or lack there of), is when I play the safe method as far as strategy and avoiding penalties, and still take a penalty due to poor execution. Usually the issue lies where the next time you play that hole or a similar situation, it is hard not to take the attitude "Well, the last time I played this safe I screwed it up anyways". I think a big part of my starting to be good in course management and thereby scoring better was realizing it was my ability and not my strategy that got me in trouble the last time, and this time around the safe play is still the better option and the ability to pull off that shot is still much easier. Basically trusting my strategy.

It took a very long time to come to trust that realization and just because I am playing smart does not mean I will not still hit crappy shots that will cost me strokes. I think it is the foundation to developing strong course management skills in realizing it was my shot and not my strategy that killed me. It is even compounded when playing match play and you need to also evaluate your opponents game. I think this is where I was forced to trust my strategy. Nothing better than watching your opponent practically drive a par 4 green, and you lay up to 100 yards, knock one to within a few feet and birdie because you use the strong part of your game. They chip on and two putt for par. Nothing worse than assuming you need to play even and drop one in the woods trying to go for a green you have no business going for. You win only one or two holes like that and it all starts to make sense knowing my short game inside 100 yards is my game and if I am not even going to give myself the opportunity to use the strong part of my game, I failed. Even better is knowing your strategy is directly responsible, and your opponent likely crapped his pants and threw in the towel when he sees you now have a kick in birdie and he has to get up and down to halve the hole. You win a hole like that and it may mark the end of their confidence and the match. If you lose it, then it is really easy to overcome the aspect that you lost a hole because the guy almost drove the green.

I really think playing in league matchplay is a fantastic tool in developing strong course management.

 

[fisher]

Hole #1

Looking at this hole my strategy would be largely based on the wind and pin position. I would definately be bombing driver on this hole.

Note the green is L shaped.

If the pin is back right I am going to be hitting the drive as long and strait as possible down the left edge of the fairway to assure a good angle at the pin without having to fly that bunker.

If the pin is in the front or middle I will aim my drive out over the water on the left and hit a high cut (wind permitting) which will bring me back to the middle of the fairway.

That is how I would play the hole. You have to choose your strategy based on your own strengths and weaknesses. I am very confident with my abilities with the driver. I also know that I very very rarely ever miss left of my intended target. I am either dead on or I miss right. I know that my worst possible driver miss is a push right that will wind up 40 yards right of my target.....that is my worst case scenario. With that being said I would have no problem flirting with the water on the left side of that hole.

I really try to play angles into pins as much as possible. With the pin back right I would likely be shaping the approach shot as well to get at the pin without flirting with the bunkers as much as possible.

Knowing my strengths and weaknesses I would say the water would not bother me a bit. My biggest fear on this hole would be the greenside bunker on the right. This hole does not look particularly difficult unless the pin is pushed back right.

Hole #9
The green on this hole looks huge. I would be aiming to get the ball right side of the fairway somewhere between that 97 and 127 markers again keeping right working the best angle I can get to the pin. With the shape of this hole I would probably be hiting the high cut aiming out over the water.

 

[Esox]

I'm going to give a different opinion. It depends a bit on how far you hit the ball, but why not just hit driver as far as you can down the right side of the fairway in both cases. That's what I'd do on both holes from either the white tees or the tips. I'm honestly not that much more accurate with a ball sitting in front of me on a tee with a five or seven wood than I am with my driver. I hit more drivers so I'm actually probably more accurate. I notice a lot of times people I play with that try to club down on a hole end up hitting a crappy shot with the shorter club. Then where are they? In trouble, and instead of in trouble 140-160 from the green, they're in trouble 180-200 from the green.

The water on these two holes is far enough out where most golfers aren't getting to it off the tee. On the first hole it's 268 from the white tee to the corner of the pond on the right. That's a good poke. That rough looks manageable on that side too. You can lay up from there or go for the green. Take the pond on the left out of play. Even that one is 232 from the whites.

One the second one I'm swinging at the pot bunker. If I end up past, great. If not a fairway bunker shot from 127 is not too bad. If that's an uncomfortable shot, you can lay up from there.

My policy is always to get it down there inside 150 whenever possible. If I end up hitting the ball into the pond off the tee on either of those holes, I think my chances of hitting the green in from there are pretty good because I'm hitting a shorter iron in after the penalty. On in three and still putting for par. Laying up back of where the ponds begin leaves a long iron or FW wood in for most golfers. In my opinion, there's a pretty good chance that shot could end up in the pond. Hitting four irons and FW woods into greens is suicide for most golfers. 7i, 8i, 9i, PW, that's what you want in your hands.

If you really are more accurate and consistant off the tee with a shorter club, maybe that's the play, but it seems to me that a lot of golfers think they're more consistent, but actually end up hurting themselves because they hit more bad shots with shorter clubs trying to play it safe than they realize.

Different point of view, I know. Hope it makes sense.

 

[MIKE1218]

I would cut a 3 wood away from the water on the left. Assuming I hit that around 250 I would have around 170 left. 6 iron. Assuming no wind, and pin in the center of course. If the pin is on the right side I'd hit a hybrid or knockdown the 3 wood a little to stay on the left side and short of the water.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Playing tee to green is the "hit it as far as I can and see what happens" strategy.

Playing green to tee is the winning idea. I don't worry about pin placement because it's rare that I know what it is before I play the hole. But I'll get an idea of the green, and what I want to hit into it. Look at hazards, etc. If you need 220 carry to clear hazards, consider laying up.

Ideally, you want to hit the green in regulation (give yourself 2 putts to make par). You don't need wedge in to accomplish this. Don't feel like a wuss leaving yourself 120-160 yards out. The important thing is eliminating the BIG number. Let yourself hit good shots and make good scores, while ELIMINATING the possibility of big numbers. Don't try to clear water if you think the odds are slim.

Conservative strategy, cocky swing. That's the Rotella way.

Play it safe, and swing confidently. That's how you score.

 

[JasonMacIsaac]

Walk the course backwords for a tourney and plan from green to tee box.