Golfing in Scotland

[Kilted Arab]

I've tweaked my site a little...aiming for the mixed golf/non golf tourist as well...so have introduced a 'Courses and Castles' page...

http://www.golfinginscotland.co.uk/james_braid.php is the link. Any comments would be much appreciated as I will certainly tweak the wording before I publicise it too much.

Thanks!

 

[Bravo]

R:

The site looks great...I'd like to add some comments (FWIW) based on what I have learned about the trip from the guys who went. I played with three of them on Saturday and got an earful...

Your site seems to emphasize regions (Highlands, Fife, etc) quite a bit. Our group seemed to care less about this and the pre-dominant planning criteria was playing as many Open rota courses as possible - regardless of the geography. You recall the list...starting at Turnberry, then Muirfield and onto North Berwick, The Old, Kingsbarns, Prestwick and Carnoustie. So while they certainly did not cover the four corners of the country, there was some moving about between the regions and the players did not complain a bit about not staying in a small area. I would also add, for golfers who are traveling a huge distance (like from North America) a bit of ground travel to see the famous courses is likely not seen as troublesome. I guess the upshot of what I am saying here is you may want to have a section on the site called "Open Rota Tour" where visitors can potentially choose as many of the famous classic courses as possible.

The highlight of their trip - from a value and service standpoint - was the coach driver. The services he provided were completely unexpected by the group and were never mentioned by the coach company. In return, the man was very handsomely tipped. We have his phone number and he has encouraged us to contact him should we return.

He (Neil) met them at Edinburgh airport and everything seemed routine...loading bags and clubs etc. Then when they went onto Turnberry and for the remainder of the week - he was at their beck and call, fetching sandwiches (rollups) and playing Full Host. For example, as you remember, they had nothing confirmed on the Old Course and were going to ballot it for Wednesday morning. Previously they had set up Kingsbarns for 3 PM that same day. If they failed to get on the Old from the ballot, they were going to play The New on Wednesday morning and then proceed to Kingsbarns that afternoon.

When Neil heard this (on Monday), he simply rang up St. A and got them a time on the Old in the mid-afternoon Wednesday and promptly switched their Kingsbarns time from afternoon to Wednesday morning. Just like that...in two five minute calls it was all set up. They were amazed.

And the personal service continued (including substantial drinking with the group in local bars and pubs and even playing a round with them). When they were rushed for time between rounds during a day, he would have lunch waiting in the coach. Of course they would pay him in cash before he went to pick it up, but they repeatedly mentioned that "Neil would take our lunch orders when we teed off in the morning and when we stepped off the course and onto the coach, it was there waiting. We ate while we rode onto the next course".

At the end of the week, he was tipped 560 GPB - which according to them - he felt was fair. (This is when he gave them his phone number and encouraged them to call on him again). This amounted to about 70 GBP per player which they felt was a veritable bargain considering the first travel agent wanted to charge us 400 GBP per player to plan the entire trip!

I don't know if any of this is practical for you since this is a part time venture for you. Neil is retired and a resident of St. A (obviously a member of the St. A Trust) and has much time on his hands.

It would seem to me if you could form some sort of arrangement with him whereby you could point groups to him for driving and on the ground services, you might be able to provide great services to your clients at a reasonable price.

As you can imagine, each player indicated that once they had been there, the logistics of planning another such trip would be considerably less daunting and they would not hesitate to "self-plan" again, but they would definitely schedule Neil for driving, B&B recommendations and On-Ground services...he became gofer, valet and drinking buddy very quickly...

 

[Kilted Arab]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, J - much appreciated!


As a rule, I'm trying to aim away from the 'purely Open Rota' tours, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there are several companies out there who do it and do it well. But they charge for it. Which comes to my second reason - I am trying to aim for those golfers who want to golf in Scotland but are of the impression that it has to be an expensive trip.

When I did my research, over a million golfers come to Scotland each year, from within the UK, to have a golfing holiday - then there are more who include golf as a part of a more general holiday. Golfers from within the UK aren't as concerned as overseas visitors about only playing the big name courses. They are happy to play one or two, or even avoid them altogether. Some of Scotland's finest courses are non-rota - but the keen golfer will be aware of them and will seek them out. Royal Dornoch is a good example, one of the finest links on the planet, constantly top rated in golf reviews - and by professionals. But, due to its location, it's not a rota course. Dalmahoy - recently upgraded and now, I believe, is the longest course in Europe...somewhere around 7600 yards and is a truly stunning parkland/woodland course on the hills overlooking Edinburgh. But - not Open rota so is off the radar for many.

In essence, I'm aiming away from the high-spending, high-demanding customer. Ordinary guys who want to do it on the cheap, but with a bit of advice/assistance thrown in. It's not my main job, just a hobby and so my margins are very low. In fact, at the moment - more often than not I'm doing it for free - just for the enjoyment and experience. In fact, the last trip I helped set up was for a group of American schoolkids - a school golf/educational trip, based in Edinburgh, with two or three days golf included in a 10 day visit.

I'm really delighted your friends had such a great driver. Characters like that can make or break a trip, especially for overseas visitors. I may well be in touch to get his details at some point! It's very useful for me to get insight into the services and standards of these guys.

Anyway, many thanks again for your input and hope all's well with you!

R

 

[Slingblade61]

I'd be delighted if your friends would learn how to use a computer and relate the stories themsleves.

btw....what's a rota?

 

[Kilted Arab]

I'd be delighted if your friends would learn how to use a computer and relate the stories themsleves.

btw....what's a rota?

There's a list of courses used for the Open...Carnoustie, Old Course, Turnberry, Lytham etc..The Open rotates between them. Quite how they decide or how a course gets on the rota, I'm not sure.

Royal Dornoch would, by general concensus, be an automatic rota course were it not so remote. Tom Watson described it as "The most fun he's ever had on a golf course" and numerous pros make a point of travelling up there for a round or two - Greg Norman is also a big fan of the place.

 

[VtDivot]

From 1860-1870, The Open Championship was organised by and played at Prestwick Golf Club. Since it was revived in 1872 after a lapse of one year, it has always been played at a number of courses in rotation. Initially there were three courses in the rotation, namely Prestwick, St Andrews, and Musselburgh. In 1893 Royal St George's and Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake were invited to join the rotation. Since then a handful of further clubs have been added, and a few have been dropped.

There are eight or nine courses in the current rotation:

• St Andrews: In 1872 the "Home of Golf" became the second course to host the Open. Nowadays, it does so more often than any other course.
• Muirfield: Muirfield is a private course which was built for The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers, one of the trio of clubs which ran The Open in the 1870s and 1880s. It first staged The Championship in 1892, just nine months after it had been built.
• Royal St George's: This course is in the county of Kent in Southern England. In 1894 it became the first Open venue outside Scotland.
• Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake: The home of the Royal Liverpool Golf Club, which is often referred to simply as "Hoylake", joined the rotation in 1897 and hosted ten Opens up to 1967. After a 39 year absence from the rotation, it will be hosting the 2006 Open Championship.
• Royal Troon: This Scottish course has been in the rotation since 1923.
• Royal Lytham & St Annes: An English course which first hosted The Open in 1926, and entered the rotation in 1952.
• Carnoustie: Another Scottish course, Carnoustie first hosted The Open in 1931, and it rejoined the rotation in 1999 after being excluded for several decades.
• Royal Birkdale: An English course which has been in the rotation since 1954.
• Turnberry: A course in Scotland which hosted The Open in 1977, 1986 and 1994. It will not be doing so again any earlier than 2009, so it might be considered to have been dropped.

Courses which are no longer in the rotation:

• Prestwick Golf Club: The founder club was dropped from the rotation in 1925, by which time it had hosted twenty four Opens.
• Musselburgh: Musselburgh is a public course which was used by the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers. When that club built Muirfield, Musselburgh dropped out of the rotation.
• Royal Cinque Ports: This course in Kent, England hosted the Open in 1909 and 1920.
• Prince's Golf Club: This course is also in Kent. It hosted its only Open in 1932.
• Royal Portrush: The 1951 Open was staged at Royal Portrush in Northern Ireland, which remains the only time it has taken place outside of Great Britain.

 

[Kilted Arab]

From 1860-1870, The Open Championship was organised by and played at Prestwick Golf Club. Since it was revived in 1872 after a lapse of one year, it has always been played at a number of courses in rotation. Initially there were three courses in the rotation, namely Prestwick, St Andrews, and Musselburgh. In 1893 Royal St George's and Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake were invited to join the rotation. Since then a handful of further clubs have been added, and a few have been dropped.

Well done in digging this out!

 

[VtDivot]

The next three in the rota are:


2006 - Royal Liverpool - hasn't hosted one since 1967 (Roberto DeVicenzo)
2007 - Carnoustie - the famous Van de Velde disaster in 1999. Lawrie in a playoff
2008 - Royal Birkdale - 2nd of O'Meara's 2 majors in 1998

 

[Kilted Arab]

The next three in the rota are:


Royal Liverpool - hasn't hosted one since 1967 (Roberto DeVicenzo)
Carnoustie - the famous Van de Velde disaster in 1999. Lawrie in a playoff
Royal Birkdale - 2nd of O'Meara's 2 majors in 1998

I'm gonna make a week of it in Carnoustie - at least that's the current plan. Sorely regret not doing St Andrews this year.

 

[VtDivot]

I'm gonna make a week of it in Carnoustie - at least that's the current plan. Sorely regret not doing St Andrews this year.

Never been to an event on the US tour. That's going to change this year. My inlaws are coming down in Sept from Nova Scotia to visit. I am going to drive to Boston with my father-in-law to watch round 1 of the Deutchebank.

The Open Championship is my 2nd favorite (there's just something about amen corner and Azeleas and would love to see an Open. I have a feeling that when our kids are old enough we might make a trip to Scotland/England some July

 

[Kilted Arab]

Never been to an event on the US tour. That's going to change this year. My inlaws are coming down in Sept from Nova Scotia to visit. I am going to drive to Boston with my father-in-law to watch round 1 of the Deutchebank.

The Open Championship is my 2nd favorite (there's just something about amen corner and Azeleas and would love to see an Open. I have a feeling that when our kids are old enough we might make a trip to Scotland/England some July

Amen corner is at The Masters, not The Open? Or US Open, come to that..!

Hey...if you need help arranging a trip to Scotland...!!!

 

[VtDivot]

Amen corner is at The Masters, not The Open? Or US Open, come to that..!

Hey...if you need help arranging a trip to Scotland...!!!

Exactly - that's why I said that the Open was my 2nd favorite.

 

[Kilted Arab]

Exactly - that's why I said that the Open was my 2nd favorite.

Doh. I misread! Apologies!

 

[Bravo]

From 1860-1870, The Open Championship was organised by and played at Prestwick Golf Club. Since it was revived in 1872 after a lapse of one year, it has always been played at a number of courses in rotation. Initially there were three courses in the rotation, namely Prestwick, St Andrews, and Musselburgh. In 1893 Royal St George's and Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake were invited to join the rotation. Since then a handful of further clubs have been added, and a few have been dropped.

There are eight or nine courses in the current rotation:

• St Andrews: In 1872 the "Home of Golf" became the second course to host the Open. Nowadays, it does so more often than any other course.
• Muirfield: Muirfield is a private course which was built for The Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers, one of the trio of clubs which ran The Open in the 1870s and 1880s. It first staged The Championship in 1892, just nine months after it had been built.
• Royal St George's: This course is in the county of Kent in Southern England. In 1894 it became the first Open venue outside Scotland.
• Royal Liverpool Golf Club, Hoylake: The home of the Royal Liverpool Golf Club, which is often referred to simply as "Hoylake", joined the rotation in 1897 and hosted ten Opens up to 1967. After a 39 year absence from the rotation, it will be hosting the 2006 Open Championship.
• Royal Troon: This Scottish course has been in the rotation since 1923.
• Royal Lytham & St Annes: An English course which first hosted The Open in 1926, and entered the rotation in 1952.
• Carnoustie: Another Scottish course, Carnoustie first hosted The Open in 1931, and it rejoined the rotation in 1999 after being excluded for several decades.
• Royal Birkdale: An English course which has been in the rotation since 1954.
• Turnberry: A course in Scotland which hosted The Open in 1977, 1986 and 1994. It will not be doing so again any earlier than 2009, so it might be considered to have been dropped.

Courses which are no longer in the rotation:

• Prestwick Golf Club: The founder club was dropped from the rotation in 1925, by which time it had hosted twenty four Opens.
• Musselburgh: Musselburgh is a public course which was used by the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers. When that club built Muirfield, Musselburgh dropped out of the rotation.
• Royal Cinque Ports: This course in Kent, England hosted the Open in 1909 and 1920.
• Prince's Golf Club: This course is also in Kent. It hosted its only Open in 1932.
• Royal Portrush: The 1951 Open was staged at Royal Portrush in Northern Ireland, which remains the only time it has taken place outside of Great Britain.

A wonderful report VT!!

Everyone who went on the trip simply raved about Kingsbarns..from the course design to the fact that it reminded them of Pebble Beach...running along the ocean.

In fact, better than Pebble Beach from the standpoint that more of the holes were on the ocean.

As they sat in a local pub after playing there, they enquired as to why Kingsbarns has not hosted The Open. Locals lamented that, "It's too new and too American to be considered".

Remember watching the US Open coverage from Pebble Beach...seeing the waves crashing below the holes?

Wouldn't it be great to see an Open Championship with similar beauty?

We'll likely never see it.

 

[VtDivot]

Google my friend... google... it's a computer geek's best friend. Has helped me out in my job also on numerous occaisons