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Hogan Suppination

IrishGolfer

Fac ut gaudeam
Supporting Member
Sep 1, 2004
6,542
4,976
OK so I dug out Hogan's book, which incidentlally I haven't read for over 15 years. I think I have the fundamantals of the grip, stance and takeaway basically right, although I am still tinkering. What sorta blew my mind was this suppination gig, his secret.

I understand the "high wrist" impact area and the benefits of "ball then turf" striking. I also see the benefits of staying with the ball through the hitting zone longer. I did find the chapter a bit light on how to actually achieve it. I also found it hard to grasp how suppination improves swing speed.

Dave. I know you're a big Hogan fan. Any drills to try and promote this release at impact. I don't want to screw up my swing chasing this goal, but I know I am a bit shallow and flip my wrists (pronate) a bit at impact and I would like to get an extra 5-10mph in my swing speed (currently ~100mph).

This is an interesting subject to me, so any help or observations are very welcome.

btw here's me at impact...
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Farquod

Short Game Tragedy
Mar 8, 2005
1,165
0
IG, this has been a thorn in the side of several here....


http://www.shottalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=850


Those pics don't show you pronating at impact; the wrist looks nice and flat. I find that as long as I actively get my left side through the ball, I really can't pronate; that seems to happen when my swing becomes more of a push with my right side, and my left side doesn't keep up. Like Hogan wrote, "I like to hit the ball hard with BOTH hands."

I'm sure dave. and the others will chime on in.
 

bdcrowe

ST Homeland Security
Aug 30, 2004
2,207
276
Hey IG. How's it hangin'?

I'm not Dave, but may be able to offer some input.

By "flipping" your wrists, do you mean rolling them through impact. There seems to be quite some debate as to exactly what suppination/pronation even means, so I wanted to know exactly what you mean.

I have always battled the rolling wrists, and the smother hooks that always follow, and came across a great drill to keep that from happening. You grip a club down on the shaft (about 6-12 inches from the clubhead) and take an address with the shaft angled past your left side. Now take a normal backsing and through-swing, allowing the shaft to angle back in front of you (left side, right handed player) on the through-swing. This may feel odd at first, but it promotes a LOT of positive things in the swing. It causes you to shift to the front side properly and in good time, else you hit yourself in the hip/ribs with the shaft. It won't let you flip/roll the wrists, else you hit yourself in the hip/ribs with the shaft. It won't let you "scoop, else you hit yourself in the hip/ribs with the shaft. It basically won't let you do much of anything wrong else you... Yep, you get the idea.

After doing this a bit, grip the club regularly and take some full swings, trying to recapture the feel of the drill you were just doing. My thought on how to do this is to feel like the angle of the shaft is always pointing in front of me at impact. I know is sounds weird, and may feel weird at first, but it puts me in the suppinated position at impact without even thinking of wrists or angles or anything of the sort.

My game has gone from smother hooks to slight fades, and a notable increase in distance. I have confidence in my swing again, and don't have so much to think about over the ball.

I hope it treats you as well. If not, just trash the idea and come back and call me a moron-yank.


*** Note: If this helps you and you gain the same results as I, you are either barred from the ST World Open, or automatically become a US teammate under the "unfair advantage" clause in my head.

Take care, bro.
 

Augster

Rules Nerd
Supporting Member
Mar 9, 2005
1,473
23
BD, where have I seen that drill before......LMAO!

I KNOW I need to do that drill more.

IG, the pics look good. I wouldn't worry about it, unless that pic series is atypical. I can show you a series of myself that is just god-awful if you want to see a really, really, really, late position cast. On second thought, I refuse to show it as to not be responisble for inflicting my curse upon anyone else.

You do lose clubhead speed when your wrists break down as you begin to "push" the clubhead instead of pulling it. Your hands should remain ahead of the clubhead until well after contact, and even then, you should be "pulling" the clubhead through to the finish.
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
Hmmm,its a difficult one for me.I have played around with pronation and supanation,both at impact,and at the top (Hogan referred to impact,many believe he just meant the bowed left wrist he suffered from earlier in his career).

Hogan did many things,shorten his left thumb to control his swing,weakened his grip to cut the fade out,worked on his right knee flex,this again made it impossible to hook it,amongst others.he also hit tens of thousands of golf balls,starting when he was 12 and he never stopped.Plus he had incredible uncalculable talent.

So...............you have to tread carefully with Hogans book imho.

I think his grip is to weak for most players.I have my left thumb more to the right,this strengthens the grip and helps me release properly.But thats just me,your swing could be entirely different.But,and its a big but,I have stopped practicing my swing now,I just work on basics.Stance,grip,alignment and above all else tempo.At 100mph you have enough speed to release well,so if you aren't something else COULD be wrong,head moving forward slightly,weight perhaps 60/40 on the front foot,could be loads of things and you may need a pro to take a look.

My alignment went out recenty,I started standing closed,a pro walking past spotted it,and he also noticed my shoulders were open,both errors were giving me a false sense of strength on set-up.When squared,I felt miles open and my shoulders felt miles closed.Just goes to show how these little basic errors can creep in without you realising.Incidently,he made me tee up on the hell,like Luke Donald,and I hit a lovely fade,without doing anything else! Great fro when trouble is on the left.It was a great leson and all for free.

I just think that Hogans book was Hogans book,and as great as it is,i think some of it was so idiosyncratic as to be worthless to the normal golfer.His great golf secret was not usuable for most players,becuase it was the secret of how to hit fades all the time,and how to control distance with one knee.No one could replicate it or even want to.Same goes for that strange picture of the arms banded up (Hogan NEVER swung like that) and same for the pronation.Remember,Hogan may have pronated at impact,he also had no bounce on his irons, (negative bounce actually) and he took a shallow divot.

So,my advice? Get a lesson,something will be there for a pro to spot.Might just be tension in the body stopping you swing freely.Thats 100 dollars please:)

ps there doesn't seem to be a problem with release looking at the pics
 

bdcrowe

ST Homeland Security
Aug 30, 2004
2,207
276
Hey Aug... ;) I thought you might recognize that. That's what i always come back to when my swing is off and the hooks begin nipping at my heels.

Further, I second dave on every sentence concerning Hogan's book. There's loads of great stuff in it, but not necessarily for everyone. Plus, IMHO, Hogan tried to break everything down into technical pieces that describe what he felt he was doing. (He wasn't doing a lot of what he described, BTW.) The real danger that book has, IMO, is getting people to disect their swing the same way and get get hung up on pieces of the whole, when Hogan's true secret was the feel and fluidity that the book gets people away from.

2 pence, and there ya' have it.

(I still recomment the above mentioned drill.)
 
OP
IrishGolfer

IrishGolfer

Fac ut gaudeam
Supporting Member
Sep 1, 2004
6,542
4,976
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #8
Thanks for all the input Dudes.

Sorry I've been away for a few days and yesterday was St. Patrick's Day (I was off sinking my proverbial shamrock!)

Thanks for the tip BD, I'll try that. Dave. the lesson(s) may happen at Easter time. I wan't to try and figure a few things out myself first.

I've been experimenting lately with wedges, hitting them in low and hot into the breeze. The suppination thing made so much more sense when I read it, as that's what I was doing without Mr. Hogan's advice.

Thanks Farq
Looks like this has wrecked a few heads already.

I'm off to bow my wrist in Donegal this morning.

IG
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
Oh great - In another thread, people were insisting that you just HAD to buy Hogan's book. So I bought it yesterday. Now, in this thread, I hear that Hogan's book is a bunch of hoo-hah!

What's a poor hacker like me supposed to do?

(Don't say it!)
 

bdcrowe

ST Homeland Security
Aug 30, 2004
2,207
276
Nah... Not a bunch of hoo-hah, Eracer. It is quality stuff. Just note that Hogan was passing along the swing that cured his hook and promoted a fade. If you are fading/slicing already, it may not be the info for you. Also, Hogan had a tendency to be VERY technical in his approach. This may not be the best avenue for everyone. It can very easily promote a head full of swing-thoughts when one needs a clear head and ust thoughts of target.
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
bdcrowe said:
Nah... Not a bunch of hoo-hah, Eracer. It is quality stuff. Just note that Hogan was passing along the swing that cured his hook and promoted a fade. If you are fading/slicing already, it may not be the info for you. Also, Hogan had a tendency to be VERY technical in his approach. This may not be the best avenue for everyone. It can very easily promote a head full of swing-thoughts when one needs a clear head and ust thoughts of target.

Yah, I know it's good. Wouldn't be considered a must-read if it weren't. While I do suffer from the very occasional "monster-slice-out-of-nowhere", my ball flight is generally pretty straight. I can fade the ball easier than draw it, and my normal misses are to the left (pull).

I played a round yeasterday and focused really hard on incorporating Hogan's grip lesson into every shot. My irons felt very strong, with a big draw, something I'm definitely not used to. My grip pressure seemed firmer throughout the swing, and my backswing naturally got a little shorter (activation of the big muscles on the outside of the arm, says Hogan), which is a good thing, as I have a tendency to go past parallel and lose my swing plane.

I'm going to keep working on Hogan's lessons, because I believe that he is absolutely correct when he says that the average player needs to be concerned primarily with learning sound fundamentals that, with practice, will develop a repeating swing. Something I haven't done well enough over the years.
 

Bravo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2004
5,822
15
Eracer:

If you need the DVD, I can supply it for you. That book is the best book ever written on golf...Yes the detail is excrutiating, but it is that detail in the grip and set up that can often compensate for a flawed swing. The very subtle pressure points in the grip can keep you from getting laid off at the top and the pressure points in the lower legs and cause you to keep a quiet lower body - leading to increased coil and power...I am a big believer...
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
Bravo said:
Eracer:

If you need the DVD, I can supply it for you. That book is the best book ever written on golf...Yes the detail is excrutiating, but it is that detail in the grip and set up that can often compensate for a flawed swing. The very subtle pressure points in the grip can keep you from getting laid off at the top and the pressure points in the lower legs and cause you to keep a quiet lower body - leading to increased coil and power...I am a big believer...
Thanks Bravo - not sure what DVD you speak of...let me know what's what.
 

Bravo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2004
5,822
15
Eracer said:
Thanks Bravo - not sure what DVD you speak of...let me know what's what.

Jim McLean did a video based on the book. It includes actual video of Hogan's swing as well as Jim McLean's commentary and interpretation of the book. In short, if you have read the book, the video is simply a summary of it, produced by one of golf's most highly recognized teachers - Jim McLean..I recorded it on The Golf Channel to my Tivo and then burned it to a DVD. It is about one hour long...
 

bdcrowe

ST Homeland Security
Aug 30, 2004
2,207
276
B was nice enough to share the video with me, and it is the cat's meow...
 

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