Hogans inside elbows

[dave.]

He has these 'facing the sky' in his book,and he never says why,he just states that the insides on the elbows should face upwards.I have always found this a bit un-natural and quite strange,so i have never bothered with it.

Until now.I constantly tinker on the range and the pro I go to has given me some great drills to work on (drills only work if you understand WHY,rather than just doing them,imho).Anyway,I do have a tendency to lay the club off quite early in the back swing,the wrist set is quite shut,the elbow is behind the hip and I get a flat shut face as a result.We've worked on the right knee,which helped,I was losing flex and also plane,the knee work helped.But.............but not all the time and today he explained today why the insides of the elbows face the sky.You basically stay perfectly on plane,the arms can only move back and thus thorugh on plane,THEY CANNOT TWIST because you have already put them in a positon as far to one side as they will go,so.............they just move back.And what do you get,perfectly on plane and a perfect wrist set with a lovely cupped left wrist at the top,club facing target and face in a perfect postition.

I have never bothered with worrying about a wrist set,becuase Hogan didn't,and now I know why,get those elbows in postion and watch the wrists set by themselves.

Marvellous

 

[warbirdlover]

Very interesting. I've found (over my many years of experimenting with my swing) that "rolling" my left (I'm right handed) elbow down (inside elbow facing the sky) helps me keep my left arm straight during the swing and gives me much more yardage then when I don't think about it. It's one of the main points when setting up my shot. Especially with the driver.

I don't know why you would do this with the right arm though which has to bend.

 

[dave.]

Its not the bend that I am referring to,its the rotation.This cause me to lay the face off,but when I have the right arm inside elbow facing skyward,I simply swing back perfectly on plane,and my wrists are in a perfect position at the top.I can now see why he said you should do this.

 

[Bravo]

I have never bothered with worrying about a wrist set,becuase Hogan didn't,and now I know why,get those elbows in postion and watch the wrists set by themselves.

Pure gold...and much simpler to understand that something as complicated as 'timing when your wrists should cock'...freakishly complex.

 

[dave.]

Yup,and Leadbetter is one of the culprits.Hogan figured out the wrist set wasn't something to work on in itself,it happened as a result of something else,at least I think he did.DL works so hard to get the early wrist set in and yet I have always had problems with it,and all of a sudden a young pro gives me drill and I have a eureka moment re the elbows-point-to-the-sky things in the Fundamentals.

The strike has different sound as well,much crisper

 

[Loop]

Some do early wrist set, others make a late wrist set.
Every swing is different, and one cannot generalize this idea to others.
Besides, how early or unconsciously you cock the wrist during the backswing is irrelevant, IF both method leads to the same position at the top.

 

[dave.]

Loop,I am not talking about how late or early the set is,and yes,I agree there are many ways to skin a cat,but I can only relate to my own experiences.

As I said earlier,this thread is about the position of the elbow at address and Hogan's opinion of it as described in his pictures,which regularly get discussed on the web,no one knows WHY it was important to him.But in my opinion,the right elbow pointing to the sky promotes a perfect plane (wrist set I suppose is secondary compared to swinging on plane)

This is just my take on a subject that gets discussed regularly.If you didn't generalise when discussing the swing nothing would ever get discussed.

 

[cypressperch]

Dave, I think you are on the right track.

Also, when you make the inside of the elbos point up, you will see that the elbos get closer together. This is one thing I remember Hogan writing "to keep the elbows close together during the swing." I find that doing this keeps me connected so the club covers don't fall out. And it does help greatly with keeping on plane or under the glass. Sincerely, Cypressperch

 

[Farquod]

This is one thing I remember Hogan writing "to keep the elbows close together during the swing."

He did (elbows to the sky), but he didn't practice it outside of 5 Lessons. I haven't seen a video of him at setup with his arms in that position. Show me one.

However, Dalton McCrary does advocate this.

http://www.win-winresourcecenter.com/golf.htm

Spanky was looking into this.

Also, the barefoot guy from BBII used this setup.

I adopted this when I first began playing, but changed it when I realized it compromised distance. I was also way too upright when I used this stance.

FWIW. Being in the fairway is nice.

 

[dave.]

There aren't many videos of Hogan available,I have 4 of them and it does shoe his right elbow cup pointing skywards,so I do disagree with the last post

 

[halifax_golfer]

I find it weird to be putting my front inner elbow pointing up... My rear elbow naturally points this way..

But when I do concisiouly turn my front inner elbow up it felt a bit weird at first, but I'm getting used to it.. With proper form and some practice, I'm sure this wont sacrafice distance, cause my front arm still stays straight, so my arc must still be the same.

I do find it easier to keep a golf glove under my pits though swinging this way, your arms definitly stay connected to your body without effort other then conciously Turning that inner elbow up at address...

Chris.

 

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Turning your elbows this way is a great way to keep your arms connected to your body, and the swing plane on plane. One night, when it's not too bloody hot, I plan on going to the range, and practice ingraining myself into making sure I do this every time.

 

[cypressperch]

A quick addition.

On the back-swing, the right arm folds as we keep the left arm fairly straight with the clubhead eventually coming inside the target line. After impact, as the shoulders continue to move and we remain connected, it will be the left arm's time to fold as the right arm remains straight and the clubhead comes inside the target line. With both inner elbos pointing up, they are in great position for these folding actions to take place. Sincerely, Cypressperch

 

[dave.]

Although I am working on not folding the left to early,I want a power hit coming through with a staright left arm thrown through by the body turn,break it down to early and you lose power

 

[cypressperch]

When I said "as we keep the shoulders

turning and stay connected", I am addressing the problem of losing power. You want a powerful swing that comes from the shoulders, and I aim at the same thing. In my own swing, I was delaying too long the clubhead turning to the inside of the target line trying to get the ball to go "straight down the line." Some power comes from the releasing of the angles in the wrists through impact. I found that I was also delaying for too long the folding of the left arm which, along with the continuing shoulder turn, allows the clubhead to come inside.

I am pretty sure what we have here is the problem of trying to write about swings that we do not see. We can write about what, but it is pretty hard to visualize when. Pretty sure, we are still on the same page.

Sincerely, Cypressperch