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I called the Cheaters bluff.....

sidewinder

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
259
0
Augster,

But golf doesn't guarantee a great lie for every "perfectly" hit shot. Part of the charm and uniqueness of golf is that luck, or the lack thereof, sometimes plays into the result. The "committee" you refer to is doing the game a disservice.

S-
 

Sandpiper3

Golf Course Designer
Aug 9, 2006
5,058
2
The problem with keeping a "proper" handicap, is that nobody does properly. I can tell you right now I dont keep a proper handicap because i enter nowhere near all of my rounds, I only enter serious rounds where im competing (tourneys/bets etc), and not the round where im out with some friends slashing the ball around, even if I shoot a 70 I still wont enter it (which has happened).

If how PA is doing it, only for an approx for their own little leagues and such ppl play in, it doenst really matter because its not like theyre qualifying to get into the US Open or Amateur championships or anything.
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
Augster,

But golf doesn't guarantee a great lie for every "perfectly" hit shot. Part of the charm and uniqueness of golf is that luck, or the lack thereof, sometimes plays into the result. The "committee" you refer to is doing the game a disservice.

S-

I have to agree with Sidewinder on this point. It's equivalent to the Committee saying, "you can move your ball sideways if your ball comes to rest directly behind a tree." Or, "if your ball comes to rest on some wet ground, you can move the ball to dryer ground".

My recreational cheating consists of:

1. Speeding up play (gimmies)
2. Preventing injury or damage to my club (moving the ball in a bunker when it rests on rocks in said bunker).

Rolling the ball in the fairway seems a bit excessive to me.

But what do I care? What your Committee chooses to do is none of my business.
 

Pa Jayhawk

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
7,196
62
Country
United States United States
1. Speeding up play (gimmies)
I got to thinking about this part this morning with gimmies. I am sure there are a large number of people who do not do gimmies or do not enter the score if they do. Although I think this goes back to the type of circle you play within, where it is unlikely I have played with more than a handful of people that are below a 5 handicap index.

Anyways, after thinking about gimmies I would likely estimate that maybe 1/10 of 1 percent of the people I have ever played with do not take gimmies. Simply said, only twice (possibly 3 times) in 7 years of play and pairing up with people do I ever recall playing with people in a casual round that did not take gimmies. I have all the respect in the world for them for doing so, but it did not make me consider putting mine out when someone told me it was good.
 

Pa Jayhawk

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
7,196
62
Country
United States United States
Interesting link I ran across on this topic today. Just thought I would throw it in here. Seems as though while we were doing so simply out of respect for the other members, we were in turn following the USGA rules in the process.
USGA Rules Frame

Kinda sheds light on the topic, even though I must admit I was not aware of this when we made the decision. Actually, again, I was not the one to make the decision and have never had a real problem with Playing it as it lies assume it is consistent among the competition. Probably a reason the club doesn't have a real issue with posting the scores??? While the USGA does not endorse this, they insist that you post scores if it is accepted by the committee.



Handicapping FAQs

Section 7

Should I Post a Score Under “Preferred Lies?”

Q.
Can I post scores while playing “preferred lies” or “winter rules?”
A.
Yes. As long as the Committee has made the decision to play “preferred lies,” then all acceptable scores must be posted. The decision to post under “preferred lies” is not an option to the player if he/she has an acceptable score to post. The Committee making this decision is the Committee present at the club (preferably the Handicap Committee), but could include other club committees. The decision is made on a daily basis based on a specific Local Rule adopted by the Committee. Guidance on how to proceed under this condition must be available to all members, since there is not an established code of how to take relief (must specify location to take relief, procedure, and length of relief).The USGA® does not endorse “preferred lies.” However, if the Committee adopts “preferred lies”, all acceptable scores must be posted for handicap purposes.
 

Libre

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2007
185
107
Country
United States United States
I'm new around here, and admit that I have not read the entire thread. In fact I was directed here from another thread that started to sound similar.
In golf there are really TWO sets of rules:
-the rules the PROS play;
-the rules the REST OF US PLAY.
They are not really all that different.
The ROOT rule (referred to above) and the ROCK RULE (similar) are needed because we don't have free equipment and we have to go to work on Monday and can't afford to injure ourselves or our equipment.
Pros play on manicured courses, under the best of conditions, raked bunkers, forecaddies and galleries to find their shots in the woods and rough.
I would say the MAIN differende between the PROS rules and OUR rules is the stroke-and-distance penalty for lost ball or OB.
What, you want me to hit a provisional ball after every single shot that I can't see where it finished? Or, should I walk up to where my shot landed, look for it, and if I can't find it, walk back to where I hit it from, instead of just dropping a ball in the general area and adding 1 p-stroke??
Walk BACK? Are you out of your mind?
You guys on private courses may have that luxury. At Dyker Beach, Brooklyn USA you would have your head disassociated from your body if you tried that.
Private Course:
-Hey ho, commodore? Coming back to the tee are you?
-Cherrio, my good man. May not find my drive - came back to hit a provisional. Rules, you know?
-Hear hear. Well, see you later for a spot of ale at the member's grill.

PUBLIC LINKS (i.e. Dyker Beach):
-WATT DA F**K YA TINK YAW DOIN, WALKIN BACK HEA, HUH? WE'RE 5 HOURS HEA ALREDDY. GET BAK TO YAW BALL AND GET DA F**K OTTA HEA. YUH WANT I SHOULD KNOCK YOUR TEET DOWN YOUR TROAT??

So, stroke and distance, and provisional balls just don't work for us seems to me. Drop a ball and add a p-stroke.

Or, what if you've just skulled your 8th shot over the green? Are you supposed to hole it out no matter what?
Pick it up (or leave it), take a 10, go to the next tee, and wait for your group. That's what I'd do.
Or, so you want to deal with that guy behind you again?
 
OP
Bravo

Bravo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2004
5,822
15
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  • #83
Great post Libre and I loved your descriptions....great writing....

I was in the middle of all the discussion on this topic and btw - I AM a member of a private club....

Frankly, at our place on a Saturday morning if you went back to the tee to hit another ball after failing to find yours, you would get the same reception you described at your public course in NYC. People back there ain't gonna be happy....

I lost a ball last week in an area of the rough I haven't lost a ball in five years. It was in a 'perfectly findable' area, but the damn thing was gone.

We are always betting and there was a group behind us. No way I was going to go back to the tee and hit again...shiiiite, I can only imagine the reaction.

So I just declared myself out of play on the hole. I just stopped playing and recorded a 7 which is the highest I can record on any hole according to Equitable Stroke Control....

We feel the same way you do and I think most players at private clubs have the same philosphy that you find at public courses. You've got to maintain a pace of play. If your ball is on a rock, I don't know anybody whose gonna hit off a rock or a tree root and snap their shaft, scrape their clubhead and injure their wrists.

My main point is to have an "agreed upon set of rules" within your group and stick to them. In our case if you are on a rock or root, you've got to take a penalty stroke and take a drop. But for lost balls, we just declare ourselves out of play and put down the maximum allowable under ESC and go on....after all, that's the highest score we can post under the Rules of Golf...
 

WMitch6

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2006
483
18
What a conundrum. The reality of how the game is really played by most folks vs the honored Rules of Golf. However, IMO it's not that hard to play by the rules. You shouldn't have to return to a tee after a lost ball. That's why there is a rule for a provisional. You should never have to risk an injury from a rock or a root. That's why the rules allow for an unplayable lie.

On the other hand, my foursome has so many of our own "local exceptions" to the rules for our Saturday round that we've seriously considered writing them down. I guess we're cheaters, but I can't remember the last time any of us submitted a card for handicap so no foul I guess. The important thing is we don't cheat each other.
 
OP
Bravo

Bravo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2004
5,822
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You shouldn't have to return to a tee after a lost ball. That's why there is a rule for a provisional.

Mitch - I don't know about your course....but our courses in the south have bermuda 419 grass on the fairways and rough. This is a very fast growing grass that can get very dense. If the superintendent doesn't deliberately keep the rough mown down, you can have extremely dense rough to the point that to locate your ball, you must stand vertically over it, i.e. you cannot see it even six feet away. As a result, sometimes balls that simply , fly out of the fairway 10 or 15 feet are lost. As a result of these conditions, to be totally practical and follow all ROG, you would hit a provisional on EVERY shot that you did not see land in the fairway. I could only imagine the number of balls you would hit in a round unless you were incredibly straight.

BTW - as a result of this, the supers generally keep the rough low....if they didn't the pace of play would be horrible...
 

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