I told you guys Vijay's mishap wasn't cut and dried.

[Augster]

It looks like I may be getting a "Decision" in next year's rulebook. Awesome.

Dear Mr. O'Meara,

Further to our e-mail of March 19, 2005, the R&A and USGA have discussed the matter and have agreed that the matter deserves a more thorough discussion, as there are a number of related issues. When there is an agreed upon answer, we will let you know, but please be prepared for a wait of several months as the Rules of Golf Committees of the R&A and USGA meet only a few times each year.


Thank you for your patience with this matter.

Thank you for your interest in the Rules of Golf, which along with Frequently Asked Questions on the Rules of Golf can be found on the USGA's website at http://www.usga.org/rules.

Sincerely,

Bernie Loehr
Rules of Golf Associate
USGA



I guess this thing will drag on.

As always, I'll keep you folks aprised of the decision so that YOU don't play it wrong in your next round. As of now though, it looks as if the USGA is stumped. So, definitively, I can't tell you whether or not Vijay cheated. I still think he did, as that's how I've always read the rule, but the USGA at this point doesn't know either way.

Awesome.

 

[Slingblade61]

LOL!

Good show!

 

[Nevercompromise]

I'm new here what happened?

Found it.

 

[Slingblade61]

I'll have to find the link but Augs first post was an accusation of cheating by vjay at a tourney a few weeks ago. Veej landed in a bunker, chunked into the next bunker and while standing in the first one, made a couple of practice swings making contact with the sand and thereby testing the hazard....a no no by strict interpretation of the rules.....stand by for the link to the original post.


edit:

here-----> http://www.shottalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715

 

[Nevercompromise]

Did he chunk it and start making practice swings right after? Or did he see the ball land and then start making practice swings. I know when I chunk it sometimes I start making pissed off practice swings without looking at the ball. If Vijay did it I think he wasn't trying to cheat. It may have been an auto response to a crappy shot. A bad move maybe, but CHEATING is a big word. Then again it could be I'm a big Vijay fan.

Thanks Sling

 

[bdcrowe]

If the rules, as they are written, aren't definitive enough for the ruling bodies to decide one way or the other, then how did VJ break the rules, as they are written? If the ruling bodies make a change to the rules because of the incident next year, then did VJ cheat this year?

I applaud the fact that your input may possibly be rewritten into the books, but the fact of the rewrite sorta clears VJ as of this year, no? Cheating is a pretty dirty word to be throwing on someone, especially in a vague situation such as this.

 

[Slingblade61]

I think that the word "cheating" insinuates a willfull breaking of the rules.

Clearly, you can break the rules without thinking and not be a cheater but a victim of ignorance.

 

[Augster]

All I knew at the time is how I interpreted the rules and thought it was pretty well defined.

If the USGA & R&A don't know for sure, then NOBODY knows for sure. I mean, they are going to have to table it.

So, at the time, I viewed it as a rule infraction by Vijay. And at the time, I felt that he just didn't know the rule. I doubted he was trying to "get away with anything" because it wasn't like he was trying to hide it. My interpretation has always been that you CAN'T practice in a hazard, or any like hazard, when your ball lies within.

Obviously now, since the USGA and R&A don't know the ruling, nobody for sure knows the ruling.

So for my next round, I'm still going to play it the way I read it and always have. But, if somebody I'm playing with decides to practice in a bunker after he's already put his ball in another bunker, I won't telling him it's an infraction.

Nobody knows for sure if the USGA and R&A don't know.

I'm really surprised this HASN'T come up before. I mean, hasn't this lousy game been played for like a 1000 years or so???

 

[bdcrowe]

Yah, but televisions, telephones and viewers wanting involvement in a tournament are relatively recent.

 

[Rockford35]

I'm glad you got an answer.

I got the shaft when I submitted a request on that very issue.

USGA....buncha jerks.

R35

 

[Loop]

I'm still sticking to my guns and say that Vijay hasn't commited any rule infraction.

 

[Bravo]

Good job Augster...it will be interesting to see if they make an interpretation or a rules change on this.

 

[JasonMacIsaac]

All I knew at the time is how I interpreted the rules and thought it was pretty well defined.

If the USGA & R&A don't know for sure, then NOBODY knows for sure. I mean, they are going to have to table it.

So, at the time, I viewed it as a rule infraction by Vijay. And at the time, I felt that he just didn't know the rule. I doubted he was trying to "get away with anything" because it wasn't like he was trying to hide it. My interpretation has always been that you CAN'T practice in a hazard, or any like hazard, when your ball lies within.

Obviously now, since the USGA and R&A don't know the ruling, nobody for sure knows the ruling.

So for my next round, I'm still going to play it the way I read it and always have. But, if somebody I'm playing with decides to practice in a bunker after he's already put his ball in another bunker, I won't telling him it's an infraction.

Nobody knows for sure if the USGA and R&A don't know.

I'm really surprised this HASN'T come up before. I mean, hasn't this lousy game been played for like a 1000 years or so???

Was this whole thing worth it, looking for the smallest infraction. He wasn't practiceing in the bunker, he slammed his club down in anger and it wasn't even in the bunker in which the ball landed. Let the players play the game and just enjoy watching. If you are like this in a friendly round then you have problems.

 

[dave.]

I played off scratch and for the life of me i can't see how taking a few swings would give any advantage above what the golfer can feel from using his feet

 

[CKGuY914]

I played off scratch and for the life of me i can't see how taking a few swings would give any advantage above what the golfer can feel from using his feet

while no advantage, it is still the rules of golf... and rather than playing casual golf where who would give a flying ****, they're playing at the highest competitive level of golf