I"ve been reading Hogan again.

[DaveE]

My game has been a little off for a while and nothing has really helped so far.

Other than general inconsistancy the biggest change has been a loss of power. We're talking 20-30yds. on drives. I was reading Hogan's Five Lessons today and I think my loss of power may have to do with the position of the club head at impact.

I think I've lost my lag. Okay maybe that's too personal.

Back to Hogan;
The section conserning supination makes sense for me since I tend to be a pull/hooker, but when I try to hit the ball like this it feels like I'm going to break my wrist.

Do you guys think it makes sense to do wrist excercises or is this just something that you have to do until it feels natural?

Thanks.

 

[bdcrowe]

Dave, please, Please, PLEASE don't follow me to the dark side. I got side-tracked into very technical study and practice of my swing and basically lost a year of golf to it. My swing was triple-worse after extensive anylization than it was when I played by feel. Don't repeat my mistake. Since losing the thoughts on techniche and just going back to tempo and feel, I'm back down to manageable scores and falling quickly.

JMO...

 

[DaveE]

Dave, please, Please, PLEASE don't follow me to the dark side.

JMO...

Crowe, you are my fatha. Wait, that's backwards.

I know what you mean about over anylizing the swing. I have a bad habit of reading too many golf tips and then not getting them out of my head before I go to play. Bad news.

Actually, all I've been working on this year is tempo. I got the tour tempo book and have been practicing with the tones. The thing is, even when my tempo is ok my release seems early and distance is poor. That's what led me back to Hogan.

Anyway, it just seems if I could achieve this postion at impact it would put the lag back in my swing and I could get some distance back.

 

[mediaguru]

I've read 5 Lessons a couple of times. There's tons of good stuff but it is way to technical and not enough feel. If I have a hard time falling asleep I can read that book and I fall right to sleep.

 

[Bravo]

Dave:

I am crazy about the book. Overall I think it is one of the greatest instruction books in terms of content.

But I Do agree with mediaguru that the book is quite intricate and not very easy to read sometimes. It was written before VCR's and DVD's - so the detailed sketches and desriptions were great for 1957 (or whenever the exact year was).

I am also convinced that the best of all worlds is Jim McLean's video on Hogan's Five Lessons. McLean took actual video of Hogan and put it on a modern video editor and "translated Hogan's writing" to something much easier to understand, because we can watch it on TV.

I recorded this off TGC a year ago on my Tivo. It sits there today and watch it from time to time. It is superb. I have more than enough room in the den to swing and once the wife is gone - I can fire that dude up and go through it.

McLean sells this. Or I could see if I could dump it to VCR tape and send it to you.

(I have been threatening to get a DVD recorder for this purpose but it hits the brick "wife wall of technology" Ideally, I would want to get it to you on DVD, but can't yet.

Lemme know.

b

 

[DaveE]

Bravo:

Suprisingly, I find his book an ok read and most golf instruction books put me right out. I guess it helps that it's so short and not filled with tons of glory stories. Thanks for the offer on the tape but since I'm just looking at this one thing I should be ok with just the book.

What I'm really trying to find out is if you and the other better players here have that position at impact. And, if so did it just happen, did you practice it, did it feel awkward for anyone else at first?

Sorry to be so anal about this but I'm pretty sure it's something I have to deal with. It's a little like the tempo thing. Almost all good players have it and almost all bad players don't.

 

[Bravo]

Yes I have that wrist position...

And I don't wantto ignore what you said about lack of interest in the tape Dave but this is one of the points that McLean really reviews in detail. He then shows a drill that Hogan used to practice this supinated postion (like the illustration on page 102 in the book). McLean indicated this drill one of his alltime favorites.

This is the Y drill from the TourTempo book. I dont know who invented it first - but the Y drill is reviewed in the McLean tape and in the Tour Tempo book....

I am waiting for my replacement MP3 player to come in. The guy shipped another one from Oregon today. I am convinced that I cannot get my tempo on the money until I am wearing the headphones on the range. I went out and hit balls for an hour today with very mixed results....frustrating actually....

 

[DaveE]

Yes I have that wrist position...

And I don't wantto ignore what you said about lack of interest in the tape Dave but this is one of the points that McLean really reviews in detail. He then shows a drill that Hogan used to practice this supinated postion (like the illustration on page 102 in the book). McLean indicated this drill one of his alltime favorites.

Well that changes things a bit. The book is open to page 102 right now.

Maybe I could use a copy of the tape if it's not too much trouble. If it's the Y drill, I do have that on the Tour Tempo DVD, but if there's more info that could help then I'm all for it.

Should I PM my address? I could mail you a check for the tape and postage if you would rather.

 

[Silver]

I am waiting for my replacement MP3 player to come in. The guy shipped another one from Oregon today. I am convinced that I cannot get my tempo on the money until I am wearing the headphones on the range. I went out and hit balls for an hour today with very mixed results....frustrating actually....

<snip - quick derailment of thread>

Not to take away from what you're trying to achieve or the mathematics behind TT, but it would seem to me that a good smooth tempo will be the result of normal body motion rather than mechanical training from sounds.

I fight a fast tempo, but have found that my most effective method of "smoothing it out" has been from starting my backswing by pushing with my left shoulder (tip from my last lesson that I had unconsciously been doing anyhow) as this prevents an overly quick and handsy takeaway. I had to fight a screwed up "armsy" downswing but I've fairly recently discovered my legs as an integral part of the golf swing (probably the source of my woes as I haven't quite perfected it yet). These two things combined have led me to have a very smooth tempo that feels natural.

I found listening to the files that you kindly provided to us were distracting, but that might be because I don't have the book and haven't quite figured out how to properly engage with the material...not to say that I don't appreciate your provision of the files, but rather that at the stage that my game is at, they didn't seem helpful for their intended purpose.

I know that what works for one won't work for all, and if it's working for you, then great. But if you're starting to get frustrated from trying to force yourself into some unnatural sort of tempo that your body simply doesn't want to engage in...it may not be the best option...?

Just a thought.

<snip - /derailment>

 

[Loop]

Dave, 5 lessons is also my favorite book, and I understand your breaking of the wrist.

I had that when I read the book, and that's because I supinated the left wrist forcefully.
I found out that when I downswing and let the club release, it is much easier to supinate the wrist, instead of me forcing the release by supinating the wrist (lol, I hope I make sense ).
Remember, your hands need to accelerate through impact. Don't think about your hands position at impact as it will cause your hands to slow down. Continue supinating well after impact.

Actually, there's not much wrist/forearm muscle involved to supinate the wrist (you should see my tiny forearms).

 

[Bravo]

Dave:

PM me with your address and I will make a copy of the tape for you.

Don't worry about the expense.. I have a bunch of tapes lying around and shipping will be $3 or so....

I need to clear out some PM space and will do this now....

b

 

[Bravo]

Dave, 5 lessons is also my favorite book, and I understand your breaking of the wrist.

I had that when I read the book, and that's because I supinated the left wrist forcefully.
I found out that when I downswing and let the club release, it is much easier to supinate the wrist, instead of me forcing the release by supinating the wrist (lol, I hope I make sense ).
Remember, your hands need to accelerate through impact. Don't think about your hands position at impact as it will cause your hands to slow down. Continue supinating well after impact.

Actually, there's not much wrist/forearm muscle involved to supinate the wrist (you should see my tiny forearms).

This is excellent advice and reflects my experience also.

I found that if I take a very light grip (which had to be forced on me through multiple lessons) and I focused on accelerating through the downswing - my left wrist WAS in the proper position. The correct wrist position is a Result of good grip and acceleration. I did not force it - it was an End Product.

(My grip is so light now...I have a Foot Joy Weather Sof Glove with 30 rounds on it...it will probably be good for another 15 rounds. I finally learned to barely hold on to the club...the Hogan book talks about this in great detail. Pressures of particular fingers etc. If you have too much pressure with the index finger of right hand it will force a push or slice. I am a Type A personality and this was hard for me to internalize...)

 

[bdcrowe]

Very good advice. Jack nicklaus spoke 2 things about a proper release. It starts at the top, and it should be natural and relaxed. If you Start the downswing by "drawing the shades" from the top instead of casting, and allow the arms, wrists and hands to stay relaxed then the release will take care of itself.

 

[DaveE]

Thanks everyone.

Bravo, PM sent, thanks again. I've struggled at times with my grip, keeping it light that is. The worse I play, the harder I try, the more tense I get and the harder I grip. Endless circle really.

Loop, your explanation was very good. I can tell when taking practice swings that I am forcing the wrist into position. Relaxing and letting it happen does make sense. Hopefully I'll figure out how to do that.

BD, I had not heard the "draw the shades" explanation before. Seems like a simple way to prevent swinging over the top. I like it and will try it at my next practice session.

If the weather isn't too bad I'm going to cut out a little early today and go to the range. It may be the only golf I get this weekend. They are predicting rain for the sixth straight weekend.

 

[DaveE]

I made it to the range yesterday and hit 4 buckets of balls. I'm convinced that you cannot make your hands go to this (supinated) position at impact and keep a soft grip.

Once that was settled I tried to concentrate only on light grip. Then I played around with Crowes "draw the shades" comment. That seems to be the combo that works for me.

I hit the last two buckets with the tour tempo tones at 27/9. I've been practicing with 24/8 but now I think the slower tempo might be better for me. Ok, so I'm a little confused.

I'm gonna need a few more practice rounds to get this ingrained but my swing seems to be coming back. Yeah!!!!