If you are considering a trip to Atlantic City.

[fisher]

Stay home or go elsewhere!!!

Please consider this story.
Farmer finds body in Hamilton Township believed to be Atlantic City carjacking victim - pressofAtlanticCity.com

This was a random tourist family going to the Trump Taj Mahol to celebrate the daughter's birthday. The father drops off his wife and daughter at the front entrance and goes to park his car in the parking garage and that was the last he was seen alive. He was carjacked and they took him to an ATM where they got all of $300 out of him. They then killed him, attempted to mutilate his body then drove his car an hour inland and burned it.

I live just 12 miles down the coast and I avoid going into the city as much as possible unless work takes me there. It is a very very dangerous place. Beware and don't go anywhere in Atlantic City alone.

 

[TheTrueReview]

Amazing. Being from outside the US, my impression of Atlantic City (never been there) is its a lesser version of Las Vegas. I didn't know about the crime.

 

[fisher]

I live nearby and have a friend in the major crimes division of the AC police force. The crime that does make the news is bad enough but there is plenty that goes largely un-reported. Its bad and seems to be getting worse. There is a very seedy underworld in AC that is mostly drug related.

What really sets this particular crime apart is that it was against a totally random tourist on the grounds of one of Donald Trump's casinos. This is the sort of thing you expect to read about in Mexico, not here.

I should also mention that the hotel where the perps were arrested is the very same hotel behind which a half dozen prostitutes were found dead a couple of years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/11/nyregion/11slay.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

 

[SilverUberXeno]

What do you think you guys would've done in that situation? If they didn't have guns, I guess you could try to run your ass off from the ATM. But you're likely to get caught by some other criminal. And what are the odds that they DIDN'T have guns?

We need Batman.

 

[fisher]

Without going political here, needless to say that there would likely be a much different outcome here if the now dead man had had a gun. Only YOU can protect yourself and your family.

There is noplace where you should be safer than at one of these casinos......there are security cameras covering every inch from multiple angles and huge security forces on site. Yet the criminals know that a lone individual, even a young fit man, in a parking garage in a state where law abiding citizens are forbidden to carry a weapon is easy prey. The criminals also know that people coming and going from a casino are likely to have money on them.

All the security cameras in the world and all the security gaurds in the world could not save this poor soul. Despite being a young fit man he could not save himself. The criminals who did this were caught on film every step of the way. They were caught on film when they abducted the man. They were caught on film when they took his ATM card to the bank and they were caught on film when they went to a convenience store and bought a lighter and accellerant to burn the evidence. They were also tracked as they went thru toll booths and thru intersections with cameras. None of this mattered because the criminals knew the man was helpless. If ever there was a case for law abiding citizens to be allowed to carry a weapon if they so choose, this is it.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

We agree on a lot of things. Security cameras don't prevent a bad guy from doing bad things; they possibly lead to more certain consequences. But cameras just aren't a defense. I really wonder what was going on during the first moments. I always carry a knife. And was he IN his car? Maybe duck down and just slam the accelerator. Hit some cars and set of some alarms and security might come running. But again, if they had a gun to his head, what was he going to do?

There are very bad people in the world, and I think the worst thing we can do is disarm the good people who might stand up to them. In this case, I don't think it would've made much of a difference. He was probably getting out of his car when they came at him. You can NOT be too paranoid in a parking lot.

I watched a show once that gave some VERY good advice. Think like YOU'RE the predator everywhere you go. Be VERY observant. Know what you're carrying; keys, pens, etc., in case something happens. Look around you, and take notice of ANYTHING suspicious. You really can't be TOO careful.

But again. If you see 3-4 guys approaching you from even 20 yards away, what are you going to do? Thinking about it, if I was in a parking lot, I'd RUN. Not a great chance of them shooting you through a bunch of cars.

 

[TheTrueReview]

....

But again. If you see 3-4 guys approaching you from even 20 yards away, what are you going to do? Thinking about it, if I was in a parking lot, I'd RUN. Not a great chance of them shooting you through a bunch of cars.

Precisely. Forget the Chuck Norris movies. Out thinking criminals is effective and most times - easy. If there's an opportunity to remove yourself from danger - do so & quickly. The term 'criminal mastermind' is an oxymoron & they don't exist. They're dumb people. That's why they end up in jail. They're dumb. In Fisher's example, the perpetrators are now in jail.

And as to the issue about security cameras not preventing crime? The same situation exists all around the world - not just the US.

But having a situation where gun toting civilians are armed to the teeth and "just itchin" to let some perceived criminal have it, scares the daylights out of me. I don't want to be anywhere near an armed criminal or an armed wanna be Charles Bronson. A stray bullet from either person has the same effect.

 

[fisher]

They're dumb. In Fisher's example, the perpetrators are now in jail.

You forgot to mention that the victim is DEAD!

I'll take my chances with armed civilians any day.

 

[TheTrueReview]

...

I'll take my chances with armed civilians any day.

Especially if they're just itching to teach someone a lesson.

 

[FATC1TY]

Especially if they're just itching to teach someone a lesson.

And without getting political, and being the last I say of it.. But people like you, take the obvious out of context. People who carry, aren't out to teach anyone a lesson who doesn't want taught. I don't wake up every morning, and put my clothes on, my wallet in my pocket, and my .40 in my pants and kiss my girlfriend, and walk out the door ready to take anyone down who doesn't walk the straight line. I'm not there to take you down because you didn't hold the door for me, or took my parking space I was waiting on. I don't pull it out when you cut me off in traffic, or honk your horn at me for whatever reason.

I won't even pull it out if you walked up and demanded my wallet, or punched me in the face.

The only lesson, I'm going to teach is that when you threaten my life, the life of the ones I love and cherish, or the lives of innocent people who have done nothing wrong- I will teach your family a lesson in funeral planning. My gun is the LAST thing in a dire situation. If I can live through something, without a doubt, and think I can do so without my gun, it won't leave it's place.

I'd rather have control of my life, than people tell me how they are going to control my life. Police only come to take reports, not to stop a crime in action.

 

[FATC1TY]

fisher,

Thanks for the heads up. My family was planning around Christmas to go up to AC.. I talked them back into Vegas, mainly for the weather, but still.. I always thought AC was a dump, this confirms first hand.

 

[TheTrueReview]

You forgot to mention that the victim is DEAD!

.....

Fisher, usually happens with a murder.

. But people like you, take the obvious out of context. ....

I won't even pull it out if you walked up and demanded my wallet, or punched me in the face.

....

I'd rather have control of my life, than people tell me how they are going to control my life. Police only come to take reports, not to stop a crime in action.

Fat, it's obvious we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. I don't agree that police only come to take reports. I don't believe that you could actually think that.

I also find it hard to believe that if someone demanded your wallet (otherwise known as a robbery), that you wouldn't draw your gun. I've seen way too many people who've been punched in the face etc whilst carrying a weapon & they end up using it with deadly outcome. It's because they their pride gets hurt. I've seen glassings, stabbings & shootings where someone's prides been hurt. It's a common theme that has occurred century after century.

With respect, it bothers me less that you say that you can guarantee your actions but I know you can't guarantee the actions of others.

Yes, I used to be a police detective. I've seen it all. Handled most sorts of firearms.

You see, I live in a country with strict gun control. As in any western first world country, we have our haves & our have nots, our good areas & our bad areas, criminals, upstanding citizens, the lot. There's plenty of other countries around the world with the same situation without citizens running around armed to the teeth.

As to bad areas, whether it's a bad area in Fisher's neck of the woods or one in mine, just as you've identified with Fisher's - it's best to avoid them.

I know we won't see eye to eye on this one but that's okay. Mate, no one said we had to agree. Just as long as the personal stuff is kept out of it, hey?