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If you knew it was Illegal, would you hit it???

LBlack14

Enjoy Life!
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May 5, 2008
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I REALLY owe ya a beer someday, don't I???:thumbs up:

Only if You'd let Me return the favor!
ai16.photobucket.com_albums_b7_JohnnyCharger1968_Emoticons_cheers.gif
 

LBlack14

Enjoy Life!
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I don't know anything about TS or Geek or their owners. So basically i'm an average consumer as far as they are concerned. It would seem that their sales rely heavily on forums and local loyalty. That being said, and me being the consumer from where I stand, it looks like all these guys are a bit ego driven. If they don't produce a product that is legitimately better than an oem product, conforming or not i'd have no reason to buy from them. I mean C'mon these guys are grown men and business owners, shouldn't they be past forum fighting? Honestly that whole scene is a turn off for me.

Then you're missing something, customization. I can get a component head picked to actual lofts and face angles, You can't get that from an OEM. You'd be surprised how off lofts are compared to the number stamped on the head. Also, just out of curiosity, which OEM stands out from any other IYO. None, so why limit yourself?

Not to mention the cost, My God man the cost!!!
 

SilverUberXeno

El Tigre Blanco
Jul 26, 2005
4,620
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I've been thinking, and I believe I've come to a valid conclusion here about whether or not it is ethical to use a "non-conforming" head.

The ethics should be based around whether or not a club gives a player an advantage that he would not otherwise have. This would mean that, yes, it would NOT be unethical to use a 551, since it's non-conformity is based on something that does not produce ANY remarkable affect on the ball.

It WOULD be unethical to use a club with a .90 COR, because this would produce a measurable difference in the flight of the ball.

Likewise, it would be unethical to use a long-distance golf ball. It would be unethical to switch balls during play, since it would give you an unfair advantage.

Seems fool-proof to me. But fools are welcome to test that :D

Final thought: "advantage" is to be applied universally, not relatively. If a player A hits the ball 240 and B hits it 270, player A would NOT BE ETHICAL to use a NC ball/club combo which allows him to hit the ball 30 yards farther. By relative standards, one might think that there is no "advantage." But applied universally, A would hit the ball 270, and B would hit he ball 300. This is actually reasonable ethical so long as they are the only two playing, but just stupid, considering there has been no change. Short hitters; practice your wedges.
 

nututhugame

Winter Sucks!
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Dec 29, 2008
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Then you're missing something, customization. I can get a component head picked to actual lofts and face angles, You can't get that from an OEM. You'd be surprised how off lofts are compared to the number stamped on the head. Also, just out of curiosity, which OEM stands out from any other IYO. None, so why limit yourself?

Not to mention the cost, My God man the cost!!!

Chances are i'll never buy anything the year it comes out and I wait for the most opportune time to buy so the cost is never that high. I think the question of which oem stands out depends on the individual. For me Hibore drivers(i've had the original and now the xls tour). I had a Rapture for a minute, but it didn't agree with me on the course. Irons, Wilson Staff catch my eye. Before I even had a set they just caught my eye, I did some studying and bought my set on fleabay for like $115. Love em. The only reason I even look at irons is because mine are lofted strong as hell in the short irons. 3-5 are one degree stronger than standard. 6I is two degrees stronger. 7-pw are three degrees stronger. So I want to get to a more traditionally lofted set. I would look into getting mine bent if the bends I was looking for weren't 3* bends.

I'm not saying that all i'll ever buy is oem. I liked a few sets of irons and some wedges at valuegolfclubs. I do like the versatility you get with components. Valuegolfclubs has a pretty good customization setup. That being said though it's not like you couldn't buy (insert arbitrary oem) irons and have them checked for loft and lie to make sure they are what the specs say they are. I guess more what I was getting at is that if I were on the wire of going component (which I may be. Or not) and came across some of the girl shit that has gone on with these guys and/or their associates it would make me fall away from their side of the wire.
 

twogreen

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2006
492
54
Opps, excuse me guys. I thought this thread was gonna take a different direction. I'll be going now. ;)

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ualtim

Carrollton, TX
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Aug 20, 2005
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There was only concern about the 9*.....and later, even it was never deemed illegal......The USGA backed off.

So the Renegade is a USGA conforming head?
 
OP
indacup

indacup

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Jun 1, 2007
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So the Renegade is a USGA conforming head?

It was decided not to put it in the non-conforming list.You CAN use it in play.

Since that time, the USGA decided to create a list of conforming and non conforming heads that they want all mfgs to submit heads to (along with payment) for disposition.

However, anything created before then that were not deemed non-conforming (which includes the Renegades), have been "grandfathered" into the system and can be used for play.
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
so basically there are drivers out there above cor or moi, whatever, that have been grand fathered yet still legible for play? So why all the furor over the Geek?
 

xamilo

Right Curving Driver....
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Dec 22, 2007
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SHouldn't there be a non-conforming USGA list and a "recreational" list?
 
OP
indacup

indacup

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so basically there are drivers out there above cor or moi, whatever, that have been grand fathered yet still legible for play? So why all the furor over the Geek?

You are bundling many different things into one generalization...LOL

Let me try to explain....

1) The 9* Renegade met ALL the regulations of the USGA except for one...which was cosmetic.

The rules stipulate that at address the player should not be able see anything of the clubhead except crown and face.

However the Renegade, much like the Hippo Hex allowed the player to see the sides of the head at certain angles...so originally, they informed TourSwing that the head would be non-conforming..it was after mail ins from angry players who pointed out the Hippo Hex had been approved with same basic visual aesthetics...and it was also noted that people address the ball differently, so the ruling was ambiguous, and tossed out.

2) Now any head that was found to be non-conforming prior to mandatory testing is STILL non-conforming....and heads released prior to that time, that were never submitted are still permissible to play since they were not on any non-conforming list.

3) The furor over the Geek is they knowingly, hell, PROMOTING it as an illegal club since the new USGA system has been put in place.....since they have chosen NOT to submit it, then it WILL be an illegal or "unauthorized" head to use in USGA play.

4) COR testing was phased out in 2004...it is now a CT pendulum test...as far as MOI limitations go, chances are we will never see a head 460ccs or less pushing those limits...
 

Skiddlydiddly

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2007
308
0
I don't have a problem with anyone producing a non-conforming head, as long as everyone knows it's non-conforming.

Seems to me that if Geek is up front about it, and everyone who buys it knows that it's not legal, they're not doing anything wrong. They're not telling anyone to break the rules. Recreational players can play whatever they want, and break whatever rules they want.

It may leave the door open for consumers to unknowingly play an illegal club in competition, but Geek can hardly be held responsible for the ignorance (or dishonesty) of individual consumers.

*shrug* some people only play for fun.
 

twogreen

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2006
492
54
I would say the vast majority of people only play for fun & this club is no big deal to them.

I would tend to agree. When gathering lost balls at my home course, I often find illegal balls (Bandit, Desperado, etc.). If some people choose to play illegal balls, I seriously doubt that they would hesitate to play an illegal club.
 

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