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JOhn Daly not playing by rules

Is this ok with you?

  • No, its a form of cheating,

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Yes, totally ok with this

    Votes: 18 75.0%
  • Couldn't care one way or another

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Total voters


now...a cartoon
Sep 27, 2008
i think the deal is this. V grooves work almost as well from a tight lie(FAIRWAY), where you can compress the ball on your shot. but from the taller stuff, V grooves don't spin nealy as well as square ones. thats the whole idea behind this ruling, to keep it in the fairways. to bring golf back into golfing, rather than just bombing it and not worry about the rough like they're doing.

btw, i was watching the Bob hope and they were sucking approach shots back like crazy.


"Playing it straight"
Supporting Member
Jan 8, 2009
Australia Australia
.... thats the whole idea behind this ruling, to keep it in the fairways. to bring golf back into golfing, rather than just bombing it and not worry about the rough like they're doing.

.... .

Hmmm, yes. I think that the ruling bodies made this change based on a flawed proposition -> players blaze away without caring where the ball lands.

It annoyed me when McElroy got the flyer in Abu Dhabi when he was in contention.


Trinket King
Aug 13, 2006
Isn't rough meant to penalise?

Daly is ok in my book, there are so many silly rules in golf which if you break while gaining absolutely no advantage you are penalised for it stands to reason that if you do as the rules stipulate then it is fine.


Right Curving Driver....
Supporting Member
Dec 22, 2007
The whole point is: Is he doing something ilegal? No.
Is he breaking any rule? No.
Is he the only one who could play PING Eye-2 pre 1980 wedges? No

So there is no conversation here....

I wish 90% of the players appeared with Eye-2 wedges to see what the USGA is ging to do abut that hehehehehe


Rules Nerd
Supporting Member
Mar 9, 2005
Just FYI,

There is no appreciable difference between groove types from good lies. That is, lies where grass et. al. isn't going to get in between the ball and the face of the club. Fairway lies.

You can marginally change to more spin by milling the face compared to a non-milled face, but the grooves won't make much difference at all.

Read the USGA's findings. Or Tutelman's site. Or Wishon's forums etc. etc. etc.


gear head
Aug 10, 2006
Canada Canada
He wasn't the only one using the PING wedges. I'm OK with it.

What do you think about this quote?

"Grooves don't cause spin on regular clubs either... Grooves remove grass, water or other debris so that the face and ball can make clean contact."

Its completely true. I believe it was Wishon who tested this, and found spin rates the same with or without grooves. However this only applies to clean contact situations. The grooves help out of the rough as they are designed to remove and channel water and debris. Off the fairway, a grooveless wedge will spin just as much as one with grooves.


Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #23
You see thats interesting, because not one commentator is aware of this, every one, and I mean every one, keeps going on about these grooves from the fairway. Howard Clarke specifically referred to how they used to have to go steep and cut across the ball, using arms and legs and much much more skill, this was referring to a 50 yarder!!

yet in the forums, we have groove less wedges spin just as much as those with v grooves, and this is only relevant to the rough

So who is right, the winners of many majors and donkeys years on tour, or Wishon, Tutleman etc? I'm a fan of both, everyone in here knows this, but how come so many top pros have no idea that the grooves issue makes no difference form the fairway? Every shot from within 100 yards now the commentators refer to the grooves, every shot, its becoming boring to listen to. Mickelson hit a low grab and stop from 50 ish and what we got was, there ya go, its run out there's the difference in grooves. Those fairways are like billiard tables, no grass at all between ball and club

So who is right, the internet forums and Wishon, Tutleman, or the pros? Personally I think both sides of the debate have a gone a little bit to far. I read that grooves apply 20% of the spin rate to the ball, the rest is physics and technique,, so the difference between square and v is a percentage of 20%. percent on percent, never a great way to win any argument at work never mind spin rates. I think both sides are being over stated, a groove less wedge will NOT spin as much as one with grooves from a fairway, but its fair to say you can produce back spin perfectly well with a groove less wedge. Plus the commentators are going way over the top on well hit irons or pitches from the fairway, they are trying to claim the players need to fundamentally review their technique and get more armsey and delicate with their short games. Thats also nonsense, its just older players bigging up how great they were with balata and 53 degree lob wedges.

Fact is the truth lies probably somewhere in between the two extremes, the players do need to think about going into deep rough now and consider placement off the tee, but all this talk or players going back 30 years technique wise, or grooves make no difference at all, neither of which are true, isn't helping. This thing is growing in myth everyday, soon we will have 24 handicappers using 70 degree wedges onto wet greens, played steep off the back foot, just so they can get some grip, because unless the ball comes down vertical it will run for 50 yards. Its getting a bit silly.

Sorry Lyle, I do not accept a groove less wedge will spin as much as one with grooves off a tight lie, I accept it WILL spin, but it will spin less than one with v grooves. Not a lot, but enough to make playing a picth or chip differently. And to those that say there is no difference between v and u of the fairway, there is, but its small and in reality doesn't make much difference to a pro, a minor adjustment so small in the hands and ball position maybe, certainly not the ridiculous nonsense spoken by some TC commentators.

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