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Lie angle question...Lyle? Rock? Anyone?

MCDavis

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When you compare specs on irons, you're given the lie angle.

#1. What angle is this measuring, shaft to topline or what?
#2. If 2 irons of the same #/loft/length have different lie angles (use 63º for one, 65º for the other), is the 63 2º up from the 65º?
#3. What effect will this have on ball flight if everything is the same except for lie angle?
#4. Does shaft weight/swing weight factor in heavily to these questions?

Thanks for any input.
 

Rockford35

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When you compare specs on irons, you're given the lie angle.

#1. What angle is this measuring, shaft to topline or what?
#2. If 2 irons of the same #/loft/length have different lie angles (use 63º for one, 65º for the other), is the 63 2º up from the 65º?
#3. What effect will this have on ball flight if everything is the same except for lie angle?
#4. Does shaft weight/swing weight factor in heavily to these questions?

Thanks for any input.

1. Lie angle is the angle made by the sole of the club and the center line of the shaft.

2. Yes, two up. Vertical is 90*.

3. Upright clubs will lift the toe off the ground, causing a hook. Flat lies will create a push. This is obviously subjective to the person's swing, but that's a general rule.

4. No. It's for fit only. Swingweight is "feel", and shaft weight helps create the optimum "feel" for the club.

I hope this helps.

R35
 

LyleG

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1 - lie angle is the angle of the club sole in relation to the shaft.
2 - yes, the 63* is 2* upright to the 65*
3 - Lie angle will affect the face angle at impact and the part of the sole that impacts the ground first. Too upright and the heel will be lower than the toe causing pulls/hooks. Too flat and the toe will lower than the heel causing pushes/slices.
4 - not at all from a static stand point, but they may have an effect dynamically. THis is why lie angles must be measured dynamically. How the clubs sits on the ground at address and how it is at impact can be very different. Shaft flex, weight ect can all impact this.
 
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MCDavis

MCDavis

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Ok, so other than lie angle being a measure of shaft to sole (which I've been told before...duh), what you guys have told me is pretty much what I thought. 2º up closes the angle, therefore the lie angle # gets smaller.

Interesting. My MX 23's have Dynalite R300's (116 gram), rac OS2's have TM's (made by TT) T Step ultralite 90 gram R shaft. Mizzy lies are 1.5º up from the rac's, lengths/lofts are identical (on paper) except for the PW, in which the rac is 45º/Mizzy is 46º and the Mizzy is 1/4" shorter. Basically, identical set ups except for the shafts.

Just hit the 23's for the first time and noticed that the feel was better (probably forged vs. cast, or just new club excitement). Even though I like the feel of the rac's, I thought the Mizzy's were softer. The Mizzy's gave more feedback on mis-hits (yeah, I had one ;) ) than the rac's.

I've had a problem hitting left with the rac's, but had the lie's checked dynamically (board and tape) and was told they needed to be adjusted 2º - 2.5º up which seems to be a contradiction. With the Mizzy's, I had a less pronounced pull, and was able to draw/fade the ball a little more. Also, I was more concerned with where on the face I hit the ball as these don't look as forgiving as the rac's. I had more straight shots than I've been having.

Ok, I'm rambling. Basically, after 1 range session I'm pleased with the Mizzy's. However, I realize I've got more work to do with them, and on my swing.

I did notice them seeming a little heavier, but my distances were good and it didn't bother me...probably just mental since I knew they were heavier.

Any input you care to offer from these ramblings, feel free!
 

LyleG

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The shafts in those RACs are junk. Not just poor, but outright junk. Might make a good tomato plant holding up stick but other wise they are garbage. Probably the worst shaft TT has ever made.

As for what you found out. The heavier shafts in the Mizzy's may account for the difference in what you need in lie angle. If you still need them bent, the Mizzy's are far easier to bend with out risk of breaking. Also if the Mizzy's are used there is about a 99% chance that the lofts and lies are out of whack thanks to poor initial quality control (mizzy's are terrible for being way off spec) and real soft forgings. Those Mizzy's should be adjusted yearly at the minimum. I would recommend twice a year of you play a lot, play on hard (ground) courses or practice on mats.
 
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MCDavis

MCDavis

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They were "slightly used", but truly looked new when I got them. I plan to play them as is for now, get a series of 3 lessons with my pro, then once I'm confident my swing is in better shape have them fit for loft/lie. If it comes up I need any length adjustment, then I might reshaft them.

But first I'm going to get to the point my pro feels like my swing is in better order.
 

Pullmeister

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63 degrees is actually 2 degrees flatter than 65 degrees. In my irons for example the 3i is 58 degrees , the PW is 61.5 degrees.
 

VtDivot

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I measure for 1* flat, but prefer to play standard L/L/L.
 

Rockford35

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63 degrees is actually 2 degrees flatter than 65 degrees. In my irons for example the 3i is 58 degrees , the PW is 61.5 degrees.

The 3 iron is then flatter than the PW.

Think of it as tho the closer the shaft gets to the horizon, the flatter the lie.

R35
 

Pullmeister

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The 3 iron is then flatter than the PW.

Think of it as tho the closer the shaft gets to the horizon, the flatter the lie.

R35


Exactly, thats my point a 3i is flatter than a PW higher #s = more upright lower #'s = flatter not the other way around.
 

dave.

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The PW has a shorter shaft so the lie angles only have to adjust a ceratin amount to allow for this,afaik.This doesn't make the 3 iron any flatter,it just balances the lie to the length of the shaft I think.
 

limpalong

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You guys are making me dizzy!!! This ol' brain can't take all this thinkin' so early in the morning. Let's run through this one more time...

The most upright you could get... If the shaft were completely vertical with the iron soled... the lie angle would be 90 degrees. If the iron were completely flat... the shaft would be in a straight line with the iron sole... the lie angle would be zero. The easiest way to remember is "up" typically means higher. A higher number of degrees is more "up"right.

The poster's questions, then, would see his TM's upright from his Mizzy's. And, the confirmation was his goin' left problem with the TM's. Mizuno's standard lie angles are flatter than most other OEM's. You can print off Mizzy's chart, Ping's chart, Callaway's chart from their respective websites. You will find, Cally has one of the most upright 'standard' lofts. Mizzy has, probably, the flatest 'standard' OEM loft.

Does this make any sense? Or, have I totally 'lost it'?
 
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MCDavis

MCDavis

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limp, you do make sense. The lie angle is the angle measured from the line that runs from the back of the head (towards me) to the shaft. If it wasn't, then lie angle's would be greater than 90º.

So the Mizzy's are flatter.

Thanks everyone!
 

Eracer

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This is why I could never be a clubfitter.

"Well Mr. Johnson - we measured your dynamic lie, and it did tell me to adjust your clubs two degrees upright."

"I know that you idiot. But I'm still pulling some shots, slicing others, and that last round I hit six worm-burners and twelve duck hooks! I just know that your so-called dynamic fitting was done incorrectly! I want these MP-37's fixed, and I want them fixed now!"
 

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