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Mac O Grady - Oh Dear

charnockpro

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2005
763
0
O'Grady says golf technology makes Woods great

The former PGA Tour pro says the clubs and balls of today help average golfers do what only skilled players of years ago did.
By Krysten Oliphant, Detroit News






AUBURN HILLS, MICH. - Tiger Woods would not have stood a chance against Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
That is what former PGA player Mac O'Grady, 56, said Monday at Fieldstone Golf Course about the No. 1 golfer in the world.
O'Grady, who failed to qualify for Thursday's Buick Open, said Woods, the three-time PGA and four-time Masters Champion, is the worst driver to win the Masters.

"When Nicklaus and Palmer played, when [Ben] Hogan played and Sam Snead played, on a scale of zero to 10, they were a nine-plus," he said. "Tiger Woods is not even a one-plus."
O'Grady said technology is the reason for players' success today. A change in the drivers' grooves from a V shape to a box shape allows golfers to hit the ball farther with more spin.

When in the rough, players go straight for the hole instead of trying to reach the green. This, he said, has ruined golf.
"The reason why [Woods] can hit it on the green is because he has square grooves," he said. "He doesn't have that, he's dead. He cannot do it -- it's impossible. For him to go after Nicklaus's records is cheating. This is like steroids."

O'Grady, who shot a 1-over-par 73, has studied the swing for 23 years and plans to turn his research into a book.
"The problem is the teaching hypothesis," O'Grady said. "All the teachers have different theories, and anybody can say anything. It's unregulated. One of the reasons I've done the research study is to bring in the sciences, to try to clean up some of that hocus pocus. I did the research and the science because I think there's a lot of questions that have been unanswered."

He said technological advancements in clubs and balls have eliminated curve problems.
Balls used to have what he called a concentric arc dimple configuration, meaning their indentions were in a circular shape and each dimple was the same size, allowing for even dispersion of air across them. Now dimple sizes and positions vary, eliminating the balls' curve.
"It allows all these guys to come into the game that ordinarily couldn't do it," O'Grady said. "This ball is designed for the 30-handicap. It's not designed for the pro tour. The 30-handicapper hits the ball and it goes up to the apex, it comes down straight. It doesn't slice. So when the tour pro gets it, it's robbery. It's not fair."

He said there should be a special ball for PGA players with the concentric arc dimple pattern, which he said showed who had natural ability and who did not.
"The degree of athleticism has changed," he wrote in notes he took during qualifying. "What was humanly impossible is now technologically possible."
O'Grady, who won two PGA tournaments from 1983-89, made his own nearly impossible shot Monday when he hit into a hazard on the fifth hole.
He called an official after a disagreement with a player in his group about where McGrady had to drop, which he did three times before making the shot.

Monday was O'Grady's second PGA qualifying attempt this year. He quit the tour in 1990 because of a condition called spondylolisthesis, which he noticed when he started golfing left-handed.
A disc had broken in his back and moved forward on his spinal column, and he suffered nerve damage in his feet and other areas. It took three surgeries to correct.

"We started this project in '84, then three years later I said, 'OK, I'm going to take all this research and start applying it to my left-handed game. How long would it take me to develop the skills to go left-handed?' " he said.

"In 1987, I started really practicing left-handed, and three or four months later my back started bothering me really bad. If I had to do it all over again I would never touch a club left-handed."
O'Grady said he used the qualifying event as research for his book, taking note of driving distance and players' performance.

"I still love the game," he said. "I don't enjoy the technology because what's happening is these kids now are shooting 63s, 62s. What Michelle Wie is doing is not humanly possible. It's technologically possible because the balls go too straight, they go too far."

O'Grady said in the Champions Tour, what he called former "powder-puff" players such as Jay Haas are defeating "dinosaur guys who had the best technique."All those big players, they can't say anything because they're being paid by the manufacturers [for sponsorship]. But they know it's wrong. This is the worst dark chapter in the history of professional golf with this technology.
"Steroids [are] not in the athletes today -- [they're] in the balls and the drivers. Guys don't have to hit it far. The equipment is going to do it for them."
 
OP
charnockpro

charnockpro

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2005
763
0
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #3
Yeah at Golf WRX, thought i would post the article here just in case the members here dont go on there.

Is there a law against that?
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
He has always been controversial,and as usual you need to ignore the deliberately inflammatory stuff,such as Tiger and 'powder puff' Jay Hass,and he speaks a lot of sense.Tiger is such an incredible athlete he has the power and skill to get the most out of modern technology,this isn't Tiger's fault and O Grady didn't say it was.He is just arguing for a equipment that encourages shot making and accuracy,
I like that article,fair play to the guy for saying it.
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
I think Mac is an interesting character, and for all his mumbo-jumbo (which he calls "scientific research") I think he has a valid point, albeit a minor one. Technology has made the game easier. The concept of "bomb and gouge" is entrenched in today's game. But there really is no point in comparing Tiger, or any of the young guns, to Jack, or Arnie, or whomever from days gone by. Different times. There have simply been too many other things that have changed the game.

Psychology (something that O'Grady himself pioneered) has improved player's ability.

The swing has evolved over the years.

Golfers are, for the most part, much more athletic.

Surely O'Grady understands the fact that time moves on. There's no point to comparing Jack to Tiger, just as there's no point to comparing a 747 to a Connie; each represents the best it's time had offered. Each eveolves as technology and understanding changes.
 

LyleG

gear head
Aug 10, 2006
6,388
28
Country
Canada Canada
Mac's an idiot. Times change, get over it. Nothing more need be said.
 

Sandy

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
907
0
The 30-handicapper hits the ball and it goes up to the apex, it comes down straight. It doesn't slice.

Does anyone know where I can get some of these balls? They sound great! I don't think I've ever met a 30-handicapper who uses them though, as I tend to see them slicing the ball into the next county whenever I head out onto the course...

There's nothing so tragic as a bitter ex-pro... :(
 

Bubble Head

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2006
231
1
The thing he is missing is that golf is not just about score. Like Hogan, Palmer and Nichlaus, Tiger beats the other guys on the tour. Whether they all use 3 layer balls and Ti faced drivers with carbon fiber heads or hickory shafted niblicks and featheries, to win the Masters, you have to score better than the other people playing that week.
 

Adam Pettman

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2005
2,765
0
Well if I had a book to promote and wanted to create some publicity I'd do exactly what he's done.
I disagree with most of the things he's said but I can see why he said them.
 

goalie

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
7
0
This leads me on a path I have followed in another sport.

My tag name is goalie. I play goal. A lot. I currently play all the charity games for the NHL Alumni team in Minnesota. I am 37 years old, and have played the game competitively with an unsafe mask, a felt two-piece chest protector, and deer-hair stuffed pads. I have also played with current NHL players wearing modern gear that removes serious injury and pain from the position between the pipes.

You know what though, when it comes down to it, like golf, goaltending is mostly mental. A LOT of people have the skill to play the position, and what separates them from everyone else is the mental toughness that they have. The ability to play in the moment and focus no matter what just happened.


An NHL caliber goalie has to believe that he will stop every shot, even if he just let in an incredibly soft goal. A tour player needs to believe that he will sink every 20-foot putt, even if he only sinks a small percentage of them. It's a mindset, and we call it "the zone."


Tiger gets in "the zone" and stays there. That is what makes him a great golfer, and that is why he would have kicked ass regardless of the equipment used, as long as everyone used the same equipment.


Then, like goaltending, we can go on to the difference between the 50's-80's and today in regards to fitness and training. Goalies in the 1980s gave up huge amounts of goals in the NHL, and they were wearing pads, jerseys and gloves that are much bigger than the goalies are allowed to wear today. The NHL tried to increase scoring by decreasing the size of gear modern goalies could wear (and ignoring the fact that the stuff was already smaller than when scoring was high) and found out that it wasn't the gear, it was the fact that goalies today are well-trained, unlike goalies of yesteryear who (if lucky) had goalie training that consisted of some coach who never strapped on the pads yelling "stay on your feet!!!!"


Golf is like that. Tiger (and other tour players) are the complete athlete today. They not only have the mental game, but they have training that allows them to go beyond the natural talent they have and maximize their potential.



Anyhow, sorry to rant as a noob. I pretty much only started golfing seriously so I would not look stupid at our charity golf tourney, but I know enough to see the relationship and similarities between golfing and goaltending, and I can tell you witout a doubt, at the highest level it isn't the arrow, it's the indian.


 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
Seems simple enough,just ban square grooves for pro golf and limit dimple design.There are limits on everything else,drivers,grooves,grips,everything,so why not?
 

cabinessence

Never Say Die
Jul 28, 2005
534
0
Seems simple enough,just ban square grooves for pro golf and limit dimple design.There are limits on everything else,drivers,grooves,grips,everything,so why not?
I wouldn't be surprised if the Masters will come out with a 'masters ball' in the next 10 years. That's the only way it will happen though.
 

Eracer

No more triple bogies!!
Oct 31, 2005
12,405
8
This leads me on a path I have followed in another sport.

My tag name is goalie. I play goal. A lot. I currently play all the charity games for the NHL Alumni team in Minnesota. I am 37 years old, and have played the game competitively with an unsafe mask, a felt two-piece chest protector, and deer-hair stuffed pads. I have also played with current NHL players wearing modern gear that removes serious injury and pain from the position between the pipes.

You know what though, when it comes down to it, like golf, goaltending is mostly mental. A LOT of people have the skill to play the position, and what separates them from everyone else is the mental toughness that they have. The ability to play in the moment and focus no matter what just happened.


An NHL caliber goalie has to believe that he will stop every shot, even if he just let in an incredibly soft goal. A tour player needs to believe that he will sink every 20-foot putt, even if he only sinks a small percentage of them. It's a mindset, and we call it "the zone."


Tiger gets in "the zone" and stays there. That is what makes him a great golfer, and that is why he would have kicked ass regardless of the equipment used, as long as everyone used the same equipment.


Then, like goaltending, we can go on to the difference between the 50's-80's and today in regards to fitness and training. Goalies in the 1980s gave up huge amounts of goals in the NHL, and they were wearing pads, jerseys and gloves that are much bigger than the goalies are allowed to wear today. The NHL tried to increase scoring by decreasing the size of gear modern goalies could wear (and ignoring the fact that the stuff was already smaller than when scoring was high) and found out that it wasn't the gear, it was the fact that goalies today are well-trained, unlike goalies of yesteryear who (if lucky) had goalie training that consisted of some coach who never strapped on the pads yelling "stay on your feet!!!!"


Golf is like that. Tiger (and other tour players) are the complete athlete today. They not only have the mental game, but they have training that allows them to go beyond the natural talent they have and maximize their potential.



Anyhow, sorry to rant as a noob. I pretty much only started golfing seriously so I would not look stupid at our charity golf tourney, but I know enough to see the relationship and similarities between golfing and goaltending, and I can tell you witout a doubt, at the highest level it isn't the arrow, it's the indian.



Not a rant at all. Sounds like you put some thought into it. Hope to hear more from you.
 

Youngun5

Beware of the Phog!
Aug 26, 2004
2,734
11
its easy for him to sit back there and say what he did.

Tiger works the ball more than most, and plays closer to the old traditional game than a lot of tour players do, the only exception being his driving game. I think you put him back in time, with their equipment, and give him time to learn how to use it and he'd be right up there contending week in and out as he does now....its not fair to him to always bring up the technology argument because this is the day and age he lives in.....its like telling a hunter he's not hunter because he uses a gun instead of throwing rocks.....which are you gonna use if your well-being depended on it?
 

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