Major swing Problems....911

[charnockpro]

He is either doing one of a few things, not reading his divots correctly, or as Dave suggested setting up open and that is where his square to alignment comment comes from, or he is not reading his ball flight correctly because if his divot was square to a parallel aim line his ball would at least start straight, and then if the face was open it would slice away to the right, but he describes the ball as starting straight right and slicing, and this would signify that the path of the club is coming from the inside and going to the right with an open face, simple ball flight laws? I can only speculate like Jayhawk about lie angles maybe, but again ball flight physics still apply!!!

The books you speak about are good, The Golf Machine is another good if not in depth read similar to Clampetts, as Bobby studied and still does study Homer Kelley to this day and there is an awful lot of compression talk in those books

 

[dave.]

I know I have hit the ball well when I have the feeling my chest has lead my hands and really compressed into and DOWN through the ball.

 

[charnockpro]

Article on ball flight!
http://thegolfdrillguru.netfirms.com/nfblog/?p=71

 

[JasonMacIsaac]

I think he is shanking the ball lol Not complete hossel rockets but slightly off the hossel will put the ball 10 degree's off line.

 

[charnockpro]

It is hard really unless we see pic's or vid's of his swing to pinpoint what is happening, the use of terminology is not clear when describing different things that happen.

Ball flight dynamics dictate that his club is travelling inside and open, i have watched a few hundred golf shots to know this!!

 

[dave.]

It is hard really unless we see pic's or vid's of his swing to pinpoint what is happening, the use of terminology is not clear when describing different things that happen.

Ball flight dynamics dictate that his club is travelling inside and open, i have watched a few hundred golf shots to know this!!

yup, no other explanantion

 

[willie2]

toddy...the reason all improvement clubs have offset heads is to get the hands in front of the ball...just my 2 cents...

 

[dave.]

toddy...the reason all improvement clubs have offset heads is to get the hands in front of the ball...just my 2 cents...

Nope, its to get the ball in the air and to square the face

 

[toddy101]

First of all, hands in front of the ball is NOT good where i live. I live on the little bump on top of minnesota. When you are dont in the south, with perfect fair ways, and soft ground, hands in front of the ball is the way to go, because you can take divots. But hear, fairways are concrete, you cants take divots on this land. Hands in front of ball is bad.

I looked a my swing again, my coach did, we got my body lined-up PERFECT. My divot is PERFECT towards the target. My swing is in perfect rythm and on the correct swing path. Then i swing, solid contact, and it takes off at a 45*-75* angle right of my target, with NO slice. My club face has to be RIDICIOUSLY open. And ive done everything, but NOTHING works. How do you keep your hands close? (Of course, no swing is perfect, but it is just about as close as you get)

You can chose not to believe me, but thats not going to change the truth. The ball does exactly what i am saying. I am in serious need of help. My average is begining to fall, and my spot on Varsity is begining to slip away from me. (We are ranked 2nd in state).

Ive tried most of you peoples ideas, but none have worked. Infact, i spent 6 hours last night, and another 4 hours tonight trying to fix it. No results yet.

 

[dave.]

Toddy, you are wrong, you still keep your hands in front of the ball at impact even on the hardest of fairways, you shallow your divot using your swing path, not the position of the hands.

Using your last analysis, I can only deduce you are in fact half-shanking nearly every shot. I am as stumped as everyone else. But its possible to have a straight divot and half-shank, like this (standing to close is a cause)

YouTube - JJ golf swing high speed camera iron shank error

I dunno, just a quick look on Youtube throws up loads of help vids, if its indeed the problem

YouTube - #45 - Correcting the Shank Shot

 

[charnockpro]

First of all, hands in front of the ball is NOT good where i live. I live on the little bump on top of minnesota. When you are dont in the south, with perfect fair ways, and soft ground, hands in front of the ball is the way to go, because you can take divots. But hear, fairways are concrete, you cants take divots on this land. Hands in front of ball is bad.

I played a lot of junior golf on links fairways and compression is the only way to go when playing from such conditions, the ground will not let your club dig in deep but will react to the strike by a puff of sand or dirt, hands behind the ball at impact will increase the effective loft and lead to a multitude of problems.

I looked a my swing again, my coach did, we got my body lined-up PERFECT. My divot is PERFECT towards the target. My swing is in perfect rythm and on the correct swing path. Then i swing, solid contact, and it takes off at a 45*-75* angle right of my target, with NO slice. My club face has to be RIDICIOUSLY open. And ive done everything, but NOTHING works. How do you keep your hands close? (Of course, no swing is perfect, but it is just about as close as you get)

I would suggest you change coach if that is the case, any coach worth his salt would straight away identify a shank (if thats what it is) or any other type of problem, you now say there is no slice so there is a chance it could be a shank, as far as keeping your hands close that is not the answer, you need to be in a good delivery position to compress the ball and by the sounds of what your ideas are, an early release of angles is your problem on the way down.

You can chose not to believe me, but thats not going to change the truth. The ball does exactly what i am saying. I am in serious need of help. My average is begining to fall, and my spot on Varsity is begining to slip away from me. (We are ranked 2nd in state).

Ive tried most of you peoples ideas, but none have worked. Infact, i spent 6 hours last night, and another 4 hours tonight trying to fix it. No results yet.

We are here to help in the end, but diagnosis from what your telling us is just as bad as misinformation to your doctor, you can only work on a cause and effect basis and if the cause is not correctly described then the effect and diagnosis will be misplaced and incorrect, the proof we need is pictures or videos and then we can accelerate the cure.

 

[dave.]

I agree, a coach that stares at the divots, scratches his head and just agrees WHAT is happening without a clue as to why and what to do about it can't be very good.

As for hard fairways, myself and Charnock seem to agree. And in fact hitting off a hard fairway and crisping it is one of the nicest feelings in golf, bettered only by closely cut moss imho.

If you are deliberately holding back the hands you MAY be getting the body ahead to compensate, and thus causing these semi-sockets, if that is what they are. But don't you think its a bit back to front, paying a pro, who hasn't a clue but at least he has seen your swing, to asking some guys online who haven't and then disagreeing with everything we say? Shouldn't you be disagreeing with a pro who has taken your money, get him to sort it or ask for a refund. Even my mother knows why balls go right and she's off 32.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

I also don't think it is so much a matter of not believing you so much as one persons interpretation is very different from another. You know exactly what you are trying to say, however based on logic and knowledge of the Physics of golf, some of it just doesn't make sense. Something is either being lost in the interpretation, or the understanding of what you are saying.

If you hit a ball and your swing is straight at the target line and the clubface is open, it will start straight then either fade or slice as a result of the face being open. If it is wide open (say 30* or so), it would probably start right yet would still fade or slice. It is not until your angle of attack is at equal angle to what the face is open that the ball would go straight, yet you would then not have a straight divot in relation to the target. A couple things may influence how visual this effect may like the length of the iron. It is less apparent sometimes the shorter the club gets.

Other things may influence this. One being equipment as mentioned. Did you have your lie's checked? I could also speculate based on science if you use a ball with absolutely no compression or spin what you say could conceivably hold true to some degree. That is why you see that distance and balls labeled "Straight" achieve what is intended. However this is again speculation and probably of no benefit to your game. It really seems you may get more benefit at this point to get video's of your swing, and maybe pictures of the divot in relation to the target line.

With a 45-75* angle from the target that you last mentioned, with all the speculation in the world I would say that is a shank. Again, with prior speculation, I assumed you meant maybe 10* or so which is a push to me, 45-75* is a hosel rocket. If you hit the ball of the hosel it will also have very little spin.

I guess it would come down to this, if you really trust you swing coach and he cannot figure this out even while seeing your swing, it would be hard to expect someone else to do so without the same benefit outside of the "trial and error" speculation that Charnock mentioned.

From an outside perspective and again with speculation, I can't help but side with dave. in thinking if an instructor sees a 45-75* shot with a straight divot and no spin, and is scratching his head and saying he is baffled, it is time to find a new swing coach.

Again, are your lies correct, are you only using wedges and short clubs, do you own a camera to take a picture of the divot in relation to the target, can you borrow a video camera?

edit 1 - may want to use some impact tape as well, simple black electric tape (or baby powder, masking tape) will do as well, to see where you are contacting the ball on the clubface, your swing coach should have already recommended this part. I would only speculate that if you see no impact, try wrapping some around the hosel or toe as well as all indication is that is where contact is being made.

 

[charnockpro]

Jayhawk is right, impact tape will be a tale teller straight away, i am not getting at you when i say you are not telling us the right things, it can just get frustrating when you are not in reciept of the full facts.

Is your guy a certified instructor? i just get the feeling if you are being charged he is not helping your cause but quite the opposite, hindering you.

If you can raise some video and drop it into swingacademy or youtube then that would be a help as we can go some way to helping cure your ill's, golf is a hell of a game but also can be hell if you are suffering.

 

[toddy101]

Good news, i think i have it fixed for the most part. It took some time, alot of determination, some tears, and a couple hundred golf balls...along with skipping my band concert...But, it is going were i want it.

I actually found a nice way to fix things. Find one club, the easiest one to hit for you, then, start hitting with it. Then figure out your problem, and OVER correct it. Once you have it OVER corrected, you will have an idea of whats really going one, then gradually bring it back.

I looked at alot of your guys' posts, and they have really helped for what i was doing wrong. I really thank you all, i can now get a decent night sleep and a round of golf in with out freaking on my friends...Thanks

...For any of you who want to REALLY know what was going on (for future people with the same problem i have...read above), i will tell you. It turns out that my swing was a LITTLE bit out-side in-side, and my club face wasnt closing due to the fact my right elbow not being in (im right handed) on my foreswing (technical term?) , and fact that i my follow through was kinda side ways...meaning i brought the club around, not up on my follow through, i wasnt finishing high...

Its been a pleasure...i was surely be back for any other problems, and to give advice within my knowledge.