My thoughts on Watchmen--

[Wi-Golfer]

If you are not familiar with The Watchmen the experience will be the same as Quantum.

Other than the commercials I have never heard of them.

 

[JEFF4i]

Honestly, its a little erratic at the beginning...that's the problem of getting a graphic novel into 3 hours.

Further, and this has no offense meant, but anyone who walked out early, your opinion is moot. The movie ties up at the end, things begin to fall into place, not quite as cleanly as one might hope, but they do.

If you aren't into movies that question the very fundamentals of morality and truth, then yeah, Watchmen isn't for you. Even the novel probably wouldn't be.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Jeff, if there is not a universal truth, you could be a horse?

You're NOT a horse. That's elementary of course, but it's a fact. It is the TRUTH, regardless of what you want to believe.

Perception does not rule reality, because reality exists before and after YOUR perception. Primacy of consciousness is ridiculously narcissistic.

I may never know what the truth is for certain, but I have no doubt that there is one. I can't imagine how you even put your pants on if you're actually questioning the validity of all the things you see around you. I'm guessing you don't understand the psychobabble you're reiterating from somewhere else, or haven't really thought it through. Truth exists. Water isn't air- breathe it, and you'll see.

Anyway, back to Watchmen...

A movie that requires you to do research to even comprehend what's going on is a poor movie, really. Batman Begins/TDK require no such research, nor does V for Vendetta.

I don't see how the movie "questions" my concept of a hero. None of these people, serve one, would qualify as a hero to me. They weren't heroes. They were just wearing capes. This is a very shallow attempt at questioning morality. The existence of corrupt cops doesn't shake the foundations of morality. Wearing a hero's outfit doesn't make anyone a hero.

War is meaningless, Jeff? Good grief. It doesn't matter who's right? The war against Hitler was insignificant? THIS is the "intellectual" consensus of the present day? Reality check, brother. But I guess disputing the existence of reality itself WOULD make it easier to have your point of view.

How dare you even SUGGEST that Michael Phelps hitting a bong might be a bad influence on your kid? Bad doesn't exist, right? Lol...

It's no wonder why I play golf.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

Furthermore, Jeff, RIGHT is certainly a matter of opinion. But TRUTH is not. Truth is bigger than you, and I. I guess it's so big that you can't see it. If truth didn't exist, then the statement "truth does not exist" would be true. That's impossible though, obviously.

I'm open minded, but you're so open minded that you're willing to consider completely preposterous things. I have a "stupid" filter on my brain that repels things that don't make sense.

By all means, if you're right about all the things you think, by some miracle, you're still wrong to believe them as the world stands now.

Reason is the tool that human beings have used to ascend above all other known species. Why are you, and so many other, so quick to abandon it at the drop of a hat?

 

[JEFF4i]

SUX, tone it down, and leave me being a father out of it in any regard. You really could temper all that intelligence you love to show people you have with a touch of humility, at least in your writing style. If you can't present an argument in a decent way, you'll just as well find yourself on my ignore list. That's the thing SUX, I know you think you are smarter than me. I don't really care that you do, one way or another, because I know its just as likely that you aren't. I don't even care if your posts trump mine, all in good talk, but I deal with people who talk to me like I'm dirt all day long because of where I work, and plenty are easily as smart as you and I, so when I log into this forum and want to take part of an intellectual discussion, I don't want to see,

"I'm guessing you don't understand the psychobabble you're reiterating..."

That's why its my choice to ignore you or not, and all I'm saying, is I value your input enough not to do it right now.




That said, truth does exist, of course it does. What I'm saying is, no matter how hard we try, while truth exists devoid of our own perception, truth is perversed by it. How so? Everything we perceive is "truth," yet, because we are all flawed in one manner or another, what our mind comprehends as truth nearly always changes. Some things are constant, such as the sun rising (let's hope it stays that way), but many things are not. Shoot, they used to think we were the center, and this was truth. Why? Within their perception it was true, but now we know better. Much like then, I'm not so arrogant as to think that what we even think we know now is truth. We'll see, eventually, maybe never. Things change based on your perception of them, so for intents and purposes, truth is subjective via the human mind. Again, the real Truth isn't.

I'm saying the movie questions the conventional concept of a hero. The movie depicts people are seen as heroes for some, but then we realize that they are really messed up. It walks like a duck, talks like a duck, but it ain't a duck. All I was saying.

As far as war being meaningless. It is, and it isn't. Stopping Hitler was a good thing, as far as we're concerned, but there will always be war. I'd like to say there isn't, but from the past thousands of years for humans there has been war, and I've yet to see and conclusive proof that there won't be in the future. Be reactive, and attempt to do the right thing, but there won't be an end to conflict. Because of this, the reasons for immediate reasons make all the difference, but in the cosmic scale...they don't.

Finally, stop telling me what I am, I know what I am, you don't.

 

[zaphod]

Furthermore, Jeff, RIGHT is certainly a matter of opinion. But TRUTH is not. Truth is bigger than you, and I. I guess it's so big that you can't see it. If truth didn't exist, then the statement "truth does not exist" would be true. That's impossible though, obviously.

I'm open minded, but you're so open minded that you're willing to consider completely preposterous things. I have a "stupid" filter on my brain that repels things that don't make sense. To You

By all means, if you're right about all the things you think, by some miracle, you're still wrong to believe them as the world stands now.

Reason is the tool that human beings have used to ascend above all other known species. Why are you, and so many other, so quick to abandon it at the drop of a hat?

I find your argument quite compelling if we join in your perception of your reality.Our precieved Truth must necessarily pass through a filter of our (your) past experiences. Perception involves analysis. Analysis may or may not have a subjective component to it. Sorting that out is the rub. We as individuals have common and different experience therefore we have shared truths and subtlety divergence truths. The word subtle is operative here.

Within Dr. Manhattan's view of the universe an hydrogen atom does not care of what is true to us. It's existence is merely enough. The temporal dimension has no consequence. For humans time is a foundation we build upon.

Please tell me how we can truly experience the present without enjoining our past.

If our perception of truth did not involve some cognitive subjective component the the mechanical world in The Matrix would be preferred. Yet the very point of the movie is re-evaluation of that cold logic. Quite simply we also require emotions, which are not logical, to drive us forward.