Ok, let's discuss choking in a golf tournament...

[MCDavis]

In "The Open Discussion...SPOILER!!!" thread in Golf Tournament Talk, a thread and tournament I haven't commented on, nututhugame called me out on choking:

If that were Tiger it's for damn sure people would sum it up that way... why is it different for Scott? I remember McDavis telling me in a debate about "choking" that in a given situation that it wasn't cool to say that so-n-so choked, but had it been Tiger he would call it a choke. If I get time i'll try to dig up that conversation.

It got me to thinking: how do you define choking in a golf tournament? Are the rules the same for Adam Scott as for Tiger Woods, given Tiger is the heir apparent to the title "greatest golfer ever"?

Wikipedia defines choking in sports this way:

In sports, a "choke" is the failure of an athlete or an athletic team to win a game or tournament when the player or team had been strongly favored to win or had squandered a large lead in the late stages of the event.

Yeah, I know...I quoted Wikipedia. But, it does give us a starting point.

By this definition (or any other that gets offered up), did Adam Scott choke given he shot -6, -3, -2, +5? How about Grameme McDowell shooting -3, -1, -3, +5? Looking at the winning score, -2 would've won it for him.

And what about Tiger? Since so many people think he's on a different talent level, does the fact that he shot -3, -3, E, +3 mean he choked? Should we expect him to have shot at least -2 on the last day to win, or -1, -1 the last 2 days to win...and, is that a fair expectation?

So, how about it Shot Talk? What is choking? Did anyone choke in The Open this weekend? Should a player's talent level factor into whether or not he's considered a choker? Should the word "choking" be banned from sports vocabulary?

Seriously, what do you think? Or, do you not really care?

Note that I am in no way calling Adam Scott, Graeme McDowell, or Tiger Woods chokers, nor am I being negative about any of them. They are just 3 good examples from the most recent tournament. They're also 3 very good golfers!

And, finally, I'm not meaning to be ugly to nutu. His comment simply got me to thinking about the questions I've asked above. Take no offense, nutu...I took none at your comment.

So, discuss...

 

[anonymous golfaholic]

Here is my opinion, fwiw. Tiger's game doesn't hold up well in high pressure situations atm. Call it a choke job if you will. It seemed to me that once he realized he had no chance in winning, it freed him up and he started making some good shots and got back into 3rd place. Adam Scott choked too, imo, in that his nerves clouded his decision making. His swing held up (minus the putter) he just pulled the wrong club a time or two. Stevie should have stepped up and pointed his boy in the right direction, if you ask me.

To say "choke" is a little severe in my mind for any of the above mentioned. Nerves play a huge role on the back nine of a Major, for any golfer. The person in the lead is always trying to protect it by playing defensively and that is difficult. Then you have the guy who is trailing who has nothing to lose by hitting driver and firing at pins.

Intense pressure is the definition of Major Championship golf. Someone always chokes, that's why it is so much fun to watch.

 

[azgreg]

Looks like he choked to me.

 

[IrishGolfer]

So by your definition it is where someone “squandered a large lead in the late stages of the event”.

Ernie was the only contender that made a move, if he had only shot even par, Adam would have stumbled over the line, but he made a move. The vibe was out that someone was making a go of it. Even though McDowell and Tiger were going backwards, Scott knew Ernie was having a go. He heard the roar of Ernie’s putt on #18, he knew what the story was, the adrenaline was pumping. He made decisions or executed shots that were not expected.

Examples:

• He three putted 16, missing from 4ft. His first putt he moved all over the place. He putted beautifully all week / all year. The situation compounded the tension in his stroke.
• He played for the pin on 17 when front right would have found the green, a poor decision / poor caddying, again fueled by pressure.
• He took a 3 wood off 18, when a 4 iron would never have made the cross bunkers, again a poor decision, poor caddy.

So it looks like a textbook choke, right? But you have to remember he was a little unlucky, his execution was good for the most part, I think it was poor decision making that lost him the tournament. Does that constitute a choke?

McDowell, Snedecker and Woods were in a different situation, they were behind from the off and they all felt they had to push, shoot for pins. As it happens, none needed to, as Scott came back to the field. Ernie was so far behind he had nothing to lose. I don’t think they choked, just pushed too hard in the situation they found themselves in.

Norman was at one time the media’s King of Chokes. He held the Saturday slam, leading all four Majors going into the final day, he only won the Open that year. His melt down on the final day of the Masters was undoubtedly a mixture of poor decisions, poor shot-making coupled with his environment that Faldo was playing with him and making birdies. But Norman also showed he was a class act by picking up several Majors and holding World #1.

Dustin Johnson at last year’s Open shanked a 4 iron on the back nine OB. Was that one shot a choke?

Duffner had a 4 shot lead in last year’s PGA with about 4 holes left. Did he choke or did Keegan Bradley play amazing golf?

Rory’s melt-down at Augusta, did he choke? IMO he played poorly but was only just hanging on after 9, it was #10 that killed him.

Jean Van Der Velde in Carnoustie had a 3 shot lead plying the last, he made 7, and lost in a play-off. He played crazy golf, undoubtedly being caught in the caldron. Was that a choke or just temporary insanity?

Jesper Parvenik did it at Turnberry. Holding the lead he shot for the pin on 18, when the middle of the green would have been enough. Again he made that decision under pressure. He pulled a 6 iron 10 yards left, was that a choke?

This was a Major, the eyes of the World were watching, the expectation is huge. This is not the Qatar Masters, this is the Open. A Major is a pressure caldron that no other tournaments have. Because it is so elusive it is so difficult. It happens so many times in Major championships.

Some players will never win a Major. Monty, Westwod, Donald all spring to mind. It is a great topic, one that has to be decided by the reader. Adam Scott played awesome golf for 68 holes. He has proved he is one of the best ball strikers on the planet. He has won multiple tournaments including the Players. On this occasion, he almost did it and but for an inspired back nine from the Big Easy he would be holding the Claret Jug now.

It’s insulting to say that a player choked. It’s an easy and sometime cheap jibe to throw out. It happens in every sport, every walk of life. But it does happen and it’s how the player reacts. Will Scott win a Major? I sincerly hope he bags the USPGA. Like a lot of people have said he is too good a player not to win at least one.

 

[anonymous golfaholic]

I agree that the term "choke" gets thrown around too loosely and I get tired of hearing the word.

Still, they all choked, lol. Because, nerves dictated decision making and or shotmaking.

 

[MCDavis]

Not my definition, IG, just one I borrowed. I like your point that if Els hadn't turned it on, Scott would've won, which would've negated anyone from saying he choked.

So, I'm guessing you'd vote to ban "Choke" from the sports vocabulary, and that Anonymous might agree with you.

 

[limpalong]

Wow! Some extremely good dialogue! Here's my take. EVERY professional player has a mindset that he/she needs to score to win. The week to week competiton is at such a high level that you push for birdies or eagles. You play agressively or go home empty handed. Many of TW's majors were won, not by a single stroke but by many strokes. Why? Because he never changed his agressive... SCORE... mental game.
Now, we have some of these players who think they can sit on a lead. "I don't want to play agressively and get into trouble. So, I'll play conservatively and just make pars." Shazaaam! That player has immediately changed the mental game he takes to every tourney on the last day of the week he's playing his best golf!
Choke? Certainly, there are prime examples of "choking" in sports. I just think much of this is changing the mental game, then... way too late... understanding that was the wrong strategy and the player is unable to turn it around.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

My thought on choking would be making an inexcusably bad, out-of-character error in a very important situation in which victory seemed all but sealed.

I do NOT think Adam Scott choked. The course was playing very hard. Almost the entire field was going backwards. Scott didn't hit any terrible shots. He missed a 4 foot putt. That happens to all of us. He hit it into a bunker on 18... THERE ARE 240 OF THEM??? Not hitting any would've been miraculous. A non-miracle isn't a choke.

The putt he hit on 18 to potentially force a playoff was also an excellent putt. It BARELY missed. He didn't shank a wedge OB (which would've been an inexcusably bad, out of character shot). He missed a longish putt by a hair.

I also don't think Tiger choked. Tiger assumed he had to shoot a great number to win, probably a 66. He tried to put his foot on the gas and those near misses were very painful on a course like this. A 73 isn't inexcusably bad when you're trying to overpower a course like that.

A choke to me is a snap hook OB on the 18th hole, or missing 6 foul shots in the last 30 seconds, or whiffing a penalty kick. Playing golf less than perfectly is not a choke. Golf is really hard.

 

[nututhugame]

I wasn't trying to call anyone out. I tried to find the thread that we had that conversation in, but it is pretty old and I haven't found it. I remember it though, it stood out to me.

 

[TheTrueReview]

The point I make about the choking label is that most critics IMO who apply it are usually intellectually lazy in the manner of doing so. I watched the tape of Adam Scott's last four holes. He just had crappy outcomes on those holes. In his interview, he pointed out a number of facts including that the wind grabbed his approach shot on 17 & dumped it in the green side long rough. SUX sums it up perfectly in his posts. Most people who apply the 'choke' label haven't actually watched & analysed the event. It's just a knee jerk comment by someone who hasn't actually analysed what happened.

 

[nututhugame]

See I disagree with the idea that snapping one off the 18'th tee is choking and playing a poor four final holes when you had the lead is not. The pressure is the same for everyone in contention. Maybe choking is a harsh indictment, but maybe we can call it faltering under pressure?....

 

[BigJim13]

There was a time when a guy came on tour and wasn't really expected to win a major for 5-6 years. Golfers were considered in their prime when they got to their 30's. If a guy won once a year it was a good year, multiple wins was a great year. A major? Or a major and another win or 2? That was a good career. Guys weren't considered ready to win until they lost one or two and "learned" how to handle the pressure.

It wasn't until Greg Norman that we started to hear "choke" more frequently in the sport. Lets face it, he had a combination of bad luck, bad shots and just plain bad golf go his way to lose some of those tournaments. Larry Mize could hit 100 balls from that spot at Augusta and if he chipped one in I would eat my hat. Nick Faldo played steady, good golf, but he was aided by some bad shots and bad breaks.

Then along comes Tiger. He won the Masters at 21. Crazy. He has the career grand slam at what? 24? He's now 36 and has 74 wins. Thats an average of 3 a year. A good career 20 years ago.

The point I am trying to make is that our outlook has changed with the help of Tiger and ESPN and 24 hour news. Tiger came along and gave ALOT of people ALOT to talk about because the likes of him had never been seen. Now that he is "normal" we need someone to fill the void. Rory? GMac? Scott?

 

[IrishGolfer]

Doug Sanders missed a 2 ft putt on the 72 hole to force a play-off in the Open.
Arnie took 4 to get down from the bunker at the 72 hole in the Masters.

Normally one would expect both these and all the other examples listed above, in the normal course of play to be a mere formality for the players in question. They could pull these shots off 95% of the time in normal situations.

But in a Major, the heart starts pumping, the adrenaline flowing, the mind races muscles tighten up, and this has an impact on decision making and execution.

I have thrown up over myself a few times and have seen it in other players. It is a horrible experience to go through, watch. But it is a reality in life. It's how you learn from it and deal with it.

 

[azgreg]

You guys can spout all the psycho babble you want, but when you bogey the final 4 holes (holes you played in 2 under the previous 3 rounds) to lose by one, you choked.

 

[SilverUberXeno]

See I disagree with the idea that snapping one off the 18'th tee is choking and playing a poor four final holes when you had the lead is not. The pressure is the same for everyone in contention. Maybe choking is a harsh indictment, but maybe we can call it faltering under pressure?....

He really didn't play a POOR final four holes to me. It's an exceptionally difficult course. A near miss results in bogey, and much worse if focus is truly lacking. I don't think it's fair to call it a choke unless it's come down to a near "gimme" situation. Very last hole, three shot lead, maybe. Any professional should be able to make better than a double bogey and protect a three shot lead with ONE hole to play. But golf is just too hard, and that course was extremely hard. Making a couple of bogeys was simply the end of a miraculous stretch of golf to me, not a choke.

Like I said, I think choking has to be an inexcusable error that is out of character for the "choker," in a situation in which victory was all but guaranteed. In The Open, with four to play, it's just too easy for any pro to slide. He still hit good to great shots, but caught that bunker, missed a short putt (who doesn't miss short putts sometimes?) the approach on 18 was excellent. A choker does not hit that shot.

I also think choking disservices the ability of the benefactor. Ernie played exceptional golf on day 4,held it together, and put up the best number he could in case the course caught up with Adam Scott. It did. Imperfect shots on that golf course are going to turn into bogeys every time.