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One plane swing help.

Res Ipsa

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2006
35
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The main problem i have with Hardy is the fact he says you can hit as hard as you want from the top, it doesn't matter, yet he also says you have passive hands (and alligator arms whatever). Yet Hogan and Penick both said the hands are passive, the 'whip' is caused by the bottom half dragging the turning top half down and its the ROTATION of the forearms that create real speed. Hardy and CQ are nothing new imo, just the same old dressed in new clothes.


Dave I think you don't fully grasp the JH release and thus don't understand how "alligator arms" and "hit as hard as you want from the top" mesh together. Trust me I was confused too. The fact is both things do work together and the hands are passive (the arms are active).

In the Hardy swing there is no rotation of the arms to release the club and generate speed. There is a slight left arm rotation at the begining of the downswing but none in the last 3/4 of the downswing. The active and even violent throw of the arms while rotating provides the speed.

I know you know more about Hogan than I ever will but isn't an overly active and fast release of the club the source of Hogan's hook? Then his new swing he released the club at the top and kept the face square to his arc until contact?
Essentially this is the same theory that JH advocates although I know there are diffences in the two. But the theory of having the club square to the arc holds true for both, correct?

I know you've heard this a million times before; what Hogan said he was doing and what Hogan actually did are frequently different.
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
No, the source of Hogans hook was a strong left hand grip. ( and maybe the swing plane, who knows).When he weakened it he could release as hard as he wanted, the key being the left hand NEVER breaks down, it has one function and that is to not collapse. Hogan was adamant the wrists play no part in the swing, the right hand however should power into the ball, this should not be confused with a release of the wrists, they are two totally separate things. Hogan kept hold of his wrist angle longer than anyone then and probably still today, hence the need for XXX stiff shafts and a swing weight off the scale. And a driver that had a trillion degrees open. he squared the club with a very fast hip turn, very fast upper body torque on the back of that and an incredibly hard hit with the right hand, against a braced left side and left wrist (hence the bowed wrist at impact).

You are right, I don't fully understand Hardy's theory and to be fair to him I have never studied it fully so I would never want to criticise, he has had a lot of success with it. But I can't get past the hit from the top thing, I would need to totally re-define what I know about the swing, and completely rebuild my swing.
 

charnockpro

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2005
763
0
In the Hardy swing there is no rotation of the arms to release the club and generate speed. There is a slight left arm rotation at the begining of the downswing but none in the last 3/4 of the downswing, There is slight rotation called for depending on what grip you employ The active and even violent throw of the arms while rotating provides the speed.
 

charnockpro

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2005
763
0
There is a similar thread on the Brian Manzella message boards about systems, and his argument is similar to mine, that you can't teach the same theory to everyone as it may not work due to a numerous amount of different factors.

I don't mind people championing a certain teachers methods helping their own, but it doesnt make for an argument as there are plenty of ways to swing a club and plenty of variables.

I have read Hardy's books for research purposes, just as i have read Clampett's, Kelley's, Leadbetter's, Tomasi's, i think it is about gaining knowledge from every source and picking what you think works for a particular student, i do find the fad's very tiring though.
 

dave.

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2005
5,926
2
Bobby Clampett still swings the club beautifully, I love watching the guy swing, even now.
 

warbirdlover

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Jul 9, 2005
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I've read Tomasi's book "The Laws of the Golf Swing". Agree with alot of it. :emot-ange

And what happened to Bobby Clampett that caused his "crash" on tour? He was supposed to be the next great thing. I thought he dinked with his swing and it botched him all up. :confused:

The fads are just people taking old stuff and re-selling it as something new. :)
 

bryguy

New Member
May 15, 2008
628
0
Try standing a little farther away from the ball will help also. I converted last year to the one plane swing and when my swing goes haywire(as it has lately) I start with some basics, and how far or close the ball is to you is one of those.
 
OP
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todd

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2008
4
0
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  • #26
Tomorrow I have a session with a OPS instructor. Should be very interesting. I will pass along all these topics to him and get his take on the swing. I'am also starting to believe there is no "swing" but there are modifications to "your" swing. We are built very different and have certain limitations so how could we possibly design one move for all and expect it to work. Besides if we all knew the "swing", what fun would this game be.
 

charnockpro

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2005
763
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Ihink you may find he will protect his "brand" as much as possible and try to discredit the suggestions and thoughts relayed here, i can understand why he would do this as it is something he believes in, but i think he should not pigeon hole himself as just a OPS instructor.

Refreshing to see your take has changed slightly and that you realise there are more than a few ways of teaching the swing, the type of pupil every golf pro wants, as you find that sometimes adults have their own ideas and will not move from that medium.
 

Res Ipsa

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2006
35
0
Ihink you may find he will protect his "brand" as much as possible and try to discredit the suggestions and thoughts relayed here, i can understand why he would do this as it is something he believes in, but i think he should not pigeon hole himself as just a OPS instructor.

Refreshing to see your take has changed slightly and that you realise there are more than a few ways of teaching the swing, the type of pupil every golf pro wants, as you find that sometimes adults have their own ideas and will not move from that medium.


Well if he is a Hardy disciple, he should be well aware that a OPS is not for everyone. No pro who is worth his weight would say his way is the only way and the best way for everyone. They simply would be denying fact.

I think why some pro's designate themselves as OPS instructors is so students who swing this way do not dismiss them as one of the many pro's who try to change their swing into something more traditional.
 

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