Over the top - HELP!!!

[VtDivot]

First of all, I'm not referring to the Sly Stallone arm wrestling flick... although, if I could just turn my hat around backwards and all my problems would be solved that would be great....

Ok - so last weekend is the CC. I conveniently forget how to play golf and finish near the bottom of the champ flight. This sort of thing seems to happen every season near the end. I start off the year hammering the driver with a slight draw (that on occaision turns into a nasty hook) and cannot slice the ball to save my life. As the season goes on I start hitting big banana balls out to the right. During the CC I don't know if I hit a fairway.

Obviously, I know the problem, is I'm coming over the top and have a big outside to in swing path, thus creating sidespin etc.... my question is not what am I doing wrong, rather how the hell do I fix it?? I had some limited sucess on a few tee balls today by stepping back from the ball about 6 inches so that when I lined up the toe of the driver was behind the ball, and I was trying to hit huge draws (hit some beautiful fairway woods - but the chief is a mystery)

So how do you guys cope with the casting issue? How do you force yourself out of it?

This will probably all be insignificant by wednesday anyways once my Launcher 400 with Blue arrives, of course that will fix the problem right??

 

[nsherman2006]

HERO TO THE RESCUE(I laugh every time i see your signature)

I have the same problem you do sometimes. I have a chronic OTT move. Some days i can't hit a draw to save my life. Some days i can't hit a fade to save my life. It all has to do with when you release the club. An over the top move with a closed clubface leads to a slight draw/pull. Open face and you get a fade/slice. Try playing the ball closer to the center of your stance. The farther forward in your stance the ball is, the more exaggerated a slight miss will be. Also, try a steel-shafted driver

On a slightly related note, I am the only player i know who can come over the top and still hit a draw that starts out right of target, lol

 

[dave.]

Why do say 'obviously over the top'? Have a pro check your swing out,you could have a closed face at the top from taking the club back on a flat plane,this can cause big pushes and hooks,but there are a varirty of faults that can cause your problem.Another could be excessive hip movement from a stance that is too narrow,or not getting the weight across to the right ,or your grip might be a strong right hand grip,or.......................you need a pro

Personally I wouldn't move the ball about at address,I would find the swing fault first.

 

[GregInOz]

The good ol' headcover just outside the ball trick is always good when you're going over the top. Oh, and check your ball position. I often find that I suffer all manner of things if that get off track.

 

[DrBrown]

First step is admitting you have a problem. OK do me a favor and get a PW and find a wall you can put your back against and swing in the house. Now choke up on the grip a little so you dont pound the cieling or wall in the house, women dont like that! Put your butt close to the wall and take the club back all the way to the top. If you do this and dont touch the wall your not flat in the backswing which means there's a 99% chance your not flat coming down. I am guilt of this now and then but this is instant feedback and tells if when your wrong.

If you are coming over the top its most likely from an upper body motion. I dont know what your build or phyique is but the average person slicing and coming from the outside in has a problem with keeping their upper torso on plane. Try to never bend your left wrist and drop the club directly over your right shoulder in the backswing, then return the club back down that path to the ball. That will keep you closer to being on plane.

If the casting is tempo related, try starting down from the top at the same speed you swing back and dont speed it up until 6" behind the ball. That will reduce casting as a quick fix. Hopefully you can try something quickly at the range and it may help. Good luck!

 

[Silver]

Slicing has been the bane of my existence since I started playing. I've fought so hard to lose it that now I'm fighting a near-hook/hard draw (is there a difference???).

Things that have worked well for me:

1. Spending so many hours on my swing that I couldn't help but fix things

2. Making sure that my weight shift and hip turn are what are starting the downswing. If I can do this without casting and have my arms drop into the slot nicely (rather than throwing them out something funky), it creates a real inside out swing path of about 5* (according to the launch monitor). I do this generally by using an impact bag and being sure that my hips are pointed at my intermediate target (a spot about a yard or two ahead of the ball) at impact. It really gives your body the feel of where it needs to be at impact.

3. I fixed my casting problem generally by focusing a good couple of hours of starting my downswing from my hands being at 9:00 (or 3:00? depends which way you're facing, I guess) and taking gentle easy downswings from there focusing purely on my wrist release. Then I gradually moved up to fuller and fuller swings until a "full swing" became a point where my shoulder turn STOPPED when my left shoulder got to my chin. This prevented me from getting out of synch and being able to more easily commit to a wrist release at the appropriate time.

4. Band aid fixes have been to be sure to keep my right elbow attached to my body in the downswing and also the famous closed stance/shoulders/hips.

5. I've taken to preventing my stance from starting open (recurring problem for me) by stepping into the ball left foot first with only my left hand on the club and dropping my right shoulder to get my right hand on the club, rather than trying to reach forward with my right hand (which naturally caused my shoulders to open up).

6. Open face at impact was more or less solved by spending several hours focussing on the follow-through handshake. If my hands were in a position to reach forward and shake someone's hand during the early part of the follow-through, I knew I had successfully squared up the clubface at impact. Now I'm having a problem with a closed face at impact, so be careful with this.


I hope those help. It's only taken me three years and a grand or two in practice time to get on the right track. I'll PM you my paypal account so that you can chip in

Good luck!

 

[VtDivot]

word to Silver et al. - all of these things make sense.

dave - I appreciate the recommendation, but am going to avoid a pro, especailly this late in the season. I'm a 6 HCP and have seen my swing on video enough to recognize the obvious faults, I have seen a few pros and gotten some lessons and have yet to find one that I like... (maybe it's the student LOL).

I just hate how you can hit the ball well for so many months, and then one day... it's gone??? I guess that's amateur golf for you

 

[DaveE]

I was at the range yesterday fighting this same problem. For me it results in a hook or pull hook. Here's the best drawing I can do of a drill the pro gave me. It just took a few balls for it to kick in.




The L's are your feet aligned toward your target. The 3 o's are balls teed up at angle away from the target. It shouldn't be that great an angle but it's tough to draw with Ls and Os.

Take your normal backswing but then try to hit the midlle ball in the direction of the angle. It encourages your right shoulder to drop into position and keeps you from coming over the top.

If it doesn't work for you let me know and I'll give the pro some crap next time I see him.

 

[VtDivot]

I was at the range yesterday fighting this same problem. For me it results in a hook or pull hook. Here's the best drawing I can do of a drill the pro gave me. It just took a few balls for it to kick in.




The L's are your feet aligned toward your target. The 3 o's are balls teed up at angle away from the target. It shouldn't be that great an angle but it's tough to draw with Ls and Os.

Take your normal backswing but then try to hit the midlle ball in the direction of the angle. It encourages your right shoulder to drop into position and keeps you from coming over the top.

If it doesn't work for you let me know and I'll give the pro some crap next time I see him.

Dave - I know this drill!

I don't use the two "outside balls" since I'd probably hit all three at once LOL, but i know the hit the ball to right field drill. It's a good one.

 

[4Aces]

OTT help!!!

It's been my experience in working with good players (anybody who can achieve a 6 index is obviously a good player) is that they fall into the OTT trap as soon as they strive to lower their index through added distance.
In reality, they can best lower their index by improving their iron play (hitting it more consistently closer to the hole) and improving their short game (getting up/down 2 to 3 more times a round).
If you are trying to gain yardage you are most likely swinging the club past the point where your shoulders have stopped turning and thereby losing connection between your shoulder turn and arm swing. Once this happens, the better players will instinctively start the downswing with their arms in order to catch back up with their lower body turn--a classic OTT move!!
One quick fix is to get yourself an aid, like the Perfect Angle or the Right Angle and work on reconnecting your shoulder turn with your arm swing. Most players will actually gain more distance with this connected movement AND increase their iron accuracy.
Once corrected, remember, in golf, longer IS NOT always better.
4Aces

 

[dave.]

VT


lots of advice above,but inho,i would try 3 things first;

tempo,just check you haven't sped the swing up a bit

secondly,just check posture ie weight in middle of feet,bum out and hands hanging under chin.I have to work very hard on mainting posture all season,even with a well rehearsed pre-shot routine

thirdly,takeaway,is it straight,have you slipped slightly out to in? Is the wrist set bang on plane, ie when the arms are horizontal with the ground,does the club face straight upwards and on plane,or is it flat with the face closed (usally caused by strong right hand grip)



I am a huge fan of lessons, I get a pro check me out every month,I take the view i'm like car and need maintenance to stay fit (I hadn't noticed but my right foot had increased in angle)