Rules changes?

[Eracer]

What one rule of golf would you like to see changed or eliminated?

For instance, perhaps you think that disqualification is too harsh a penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard, and that it should only be a one or two shot penalty.

Or maybe, like me, you think that getting a penalty of any sort when your ball moves through no fault of your own after you have addressed it is ridiculous, and you believe that rule should just be eliminated.

I would also like to hear dissenting opinions. Can anyone tell me why that particular rule is a good one?

 

[Slingblade61]

We went through this last year.
The rules that seemed to get the most attention were the artificial measuring device (range finder, now a non issue) and the dreaded divot rule.

If you ball lands in an old divot, most thought you should be able to move it without penalty.

 

[ualtim]

I would like to see the rule which allows anyone to call a rule violation on someone after the round is over and get that person disqualified removed from the books. If you have a problem with someone breaking the rules, call it on the spot or shut up.

Case in point, Wies disqualification last year when the SI reporter decided after she had signed her scorecard to let everyone know she had illegally dropped. Call the infraction before the round is over or shut up.

 

[Slingblade61]

That's a good one Tim.......put a ref with each group.

 

[Eracer]

We went through this last year.
The rules that seemed to get the most attention were the artificial measuring device (range finder, now a non issue) and the dreaded divot rule.

If you ball lands in an old divot, most thought you should be able to move it without penalty.

Sorry Boss - I wasn't around last year. I guess I should have searched the threads so that I wouldn't ask the same question twice.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Case in point, Wies disqualification last year when the SI reporter decided after she had signed her scorecard to let everyone know she had illegally dropped. Call the infraction before the round is over or shut up.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this, but I am not sure the exact circumstances on the tour. I guess I would say it this way, if the players have the ability to access a tour rules official at any time, which I believe they do but am not sure, then I think that it should be the players responsiblity to ask the official prior to making the drop or hitting the ball if they have in fact followed the rules. Again, not sure if that is always an option.

Probably my main reason for this is that you play againnst the entire field, and the rest of the field cannot review the altercation until after the match. If I come off the course and find out you took money out of my pocket by making an illegal drop and did not consult and official, I'm going to be pissed. I guess it comes down to having the common sense to make sure you are following the rules if you are not absolutely certain. Now if after the match, you playing partner said he noticed you did something on the course and didn't bring it up, then that is another story, and one your playing partner will pay for as well if he signed your card.

Just like gimmes in match play, if that is your only competition, it is O.K., but if you are not currently playing with your competition then I feel you should be responsible to assure you are not cheating them whether it be from intention or accident. Probably the reason you see guys like Phil and Tiger always standing next to an official and asking questions when they do anything with a ball in play, if there is any error it rests on the head of the official. Wie probably should have done the same. Stake out the clubs with tees, ask the official if that is correct, then make the drop.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

If you ball lands in an old divot, most thought you should be able to move it without penalty.

This would be my choice, but only in the fairway.

Also in the sense of weekend players, I kinda feel it would be nice to rake a footprint, should your ball come to rest in one in a trap. Just not right that you are further penalized by someone elses laziness, where on the tour you do not usually see this happen too much (at all).

 

[ualtim]

I'm not sure I fully agree with this, but I am not sure the exact circumstances on the tour. I guess I would say it this way, if the players have the ability to access a tour rules official at any time, which I believe they do but am not sure, then I think that it should be the players responsiblity to ask the official prior to making the drop or hitting the ball if they have in fact followed the rules. Again, not sure if that is always an option.

Probably my main reason for this is that you play againnst the entire field, and the rest of the field cannot review the altercation until after the match. If I come off the course and find out you took money out of my pocket by making an illegal drop and did not consult and official, I'm going to be pissed. I guess it comes down to having the common sense to make sure you are following the rules if you are not absolutely certain. Now if after the match, you playing partner said he noticed you did something on the course and didn't bring it up, then that is another story, and one your playing partner will pay for as well if he signed your card.

Just like gimmes in match play, if that is your only competition, it is O.K., but if you are not currently playing with your competition then I feel you should be responsible to assure you are not cheating them whether it be from intention or accident. Probably the reason you see guys like Phil and Tiger always standing next to an official and asking questions when they do anything with a ball in play, if there is any error it rests on the head of the official. Wie probably should have done the same. Stake out the clubs with tees, ask the official if that is correct, then make the drop.

My issue with it was that the reporter thought he saw the violation in round 3 if I recall correctly. Sat on it and told no one about it until the next day, well after all cards had been collected and turned in. If you see or think you see a violation, you should report it right then and there or at the first opportunity BEFORE the player signs the card. Waiting until after the card is signed is chicken S#!T and not goodsportmanship to boot. I have no problem with outsiders or anyone else calling a rules violation to the attention of a rules official or player, but at least give them a chance to correct the mistake or add the appropriate penalty prior to signing the card. Once the cards are signed and accepted by the tournement committee, that should be it. No going back and DQ'ing or revising the scores.

 

[Slingblade61]

Sorry Boss - I wasn't around last year. I guess I should have searched the threads so that I wouldn't ask the same question twice.

No....don't misunderstand me, my intent was not to have you do a search or prevent anyone from bringing stuff that has been done already, do it a hundred times if you want to.
I was just reminiscing.

 

[Slingblade61]

This would be my choice, but only in the fairway.

right. ground under repair.

I'm in the fairway (nevermind an old divot) so infrequently that it would have no effect on me.

 

[P_102]

Lost ball on the course. If there's no OB or water present (or within reasonable distance), the lost ball penalty is unfair to the average golfer vs. the pro's. The pro's have ball spotters, TV cameras and thousands of patrons watching their ball, we have none....I guess it's not really an unfair rule, just that we have a huge disadvantage! Plus, some sort of change to lower the penalty could speed up play.

P_102

 

[DaveE]

Lost ball on the course. If there's no OB or water present (or within reasonable distance), the lost ball penalty is unfair to the average golfer vs. the pro's. The pro's have ball spotters, TV cameras and thousands of patrons watching their ball, we have none....I guess it's not really an unfair rule, just that we have a huge disadvantage! Plus, some sort of change to lower the penalty could speed up play.

P_102

This is a tough penalty. Especially when your ball is hit in the direction of an adjoining fairway. There have been times when we felt sure someone picked up our ball but with no way to prove it you're screwed.

 

[Augster]

P, you're preaching to the choir. I wrote the USGA about that a couple years ago and didn't get any satisfaction. I wrote them to have them make changes to rule 18-4 and 18-6 and they poo-poo'd my suggestions.

Dave,

Rule 18-1 is ball acted upon by outside agency. In the case of a ball going into another fairway, and it was "most likely" picked up, you shouldn't really feel bad about dropping, without penalty, at the spot you felt it would have come to rest.

As P_102 suggested about the "high grass" and other such nonsense that Pro's have an equity edge with Marshall's and forcaddie's and TV's and galleries, in so far as pace of play is concerned, we occassionally use Rule 18-1 as the "Gallery Ball" rule.

Example. You hit the ball down the right side of the fairway see it hop twice and roll about 6 feet into the rough. You get down there and search and search but can't find it. You absolutely KNOW that a pro would have absolutely no problem finding it as a gallery member would just say, "It's right there." You have a 4-some waiting on the tee behind you.

Under the Rules of Golf, you must walk back, say, "Excuse me, sorry" and hit your 3rd shot from the tee. It didn't even occur to you to hit a provisional as your ball was only 6 feet from the fairway. Thus holding up the group behind, creating a bigger gap ahead of you, and generally ruining any rhythm to the round as you'll be sprinting out to your ball and hurrying every shot from then on to get back "into position".

A better alternative is to use Rule 18-1 as the "Gallery Ball" rule. You just ask yourself, and your fellow competitors if you have some money riding on the match, if you absolutely KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that your ball would have been found if the hole was lined with a gallery. If you can say yes, then you should be able to drop as close as possible to the spot it WOULD have come to rest without penalty.

Using 18-1 in this way is more of a pace of play thing. I mean, you never know, really. A snake could have slithered along and ate it thinking it was an egg. If you later saw said snake, you'd be able to take a free drop there. Or, as you were buying something from the cart gal, or talking with your chums, a fox "could" have come out, taken it, and left without you seeing it. It's not like you were staring at the spot your ball came to rest ever since you hit it, because the thing will OBVIOUSLY be found. If you thought it'd be that hard to find, you'd have hit a provisional.

But to make it a "correct" and "legal" free drop, SOMEONE would have had to see the fox or the snake or a bird. SO really it's absolutely very close to being legal to do anyway.

Though, I have been in a tourney, and hit it into another fairway and not found my ball. The group on that fairway was going the other way and I asked them if they had taken it. I absolutely KNEW they had as the ball could NOT have been anywhere else. But, since they all said they hadn't taken it, even though my fellow competitors would have allowed me to take a free drop around where I thought it was as they agreed that it most likely was picked up, because I actually asked these guys if they had, and they said no, we have to take golfers at their word as this is a game of honor. Since they said they didn't take it, and I absolutely KNEW it would have been in their fairway, but I did not actually SEE it there because it was around a dogleg, I had to go back and re-tee.

I did petition the USGA for a re-write about a few articles in Rule 18, and I guess they like it how it is.

 

[Pa Jayhawk]

Alot of the courses I play have heavy tall grass. My old home course would change the markings for tall grass to mark as a lateral hazards for competitions to speed up play. My current one simply puts down drop areas for the same reason. It is pretty bad when courses go so far as changing the markings on such rules. When not in tournament play, I pretty much treat such cases as lateral hazards. Granted some may view this as cheating, I can live with that and am honest in saying I do so. Plus I am really only hurting myself. Although I would rather hurt my self in the sense of having fun, then constantly go back to the tee. I think on my home course, it people used distance and penalty you would literally get into 8 hour rounds, and this is no joke.

edit 1 - Granted, I could hit a provisional, but I can already go through 8-10 balls on a really bad round on my home course, no need to add to the misery. A friend of mine went through 18 one round on this course.

 

[Kilted Arab]

Old chestnut and said already, but I'll repeat it. Divots should be GUR.

Saves the course getting further churned up as well as being basically common sense.